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TheFallen
23-09-2005, 06:56 PM
Let's discuss it shall we?(wow-europe forums seem to be down atm and hard to discuss something here if you ask me)

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/1p8/druid/talents.html

All i can say is: Wow :shock:

Smellyskele
23-09-2005, 07:17 PM
nerf lol :) j/k looks quite good actuly.
just to make sure im understanding it right. that invervate at the end of restorative. inervate. makes the target regain mana by 400% and allows 100% regain while casting. so its abit like excovation but no as much and is allowed in combat.

Temmink
23-09-2005, 07:26 PM
Moonkin form with that goddamned annoying howling will be the new way to piss off people until they cancel their account.

sara
23-09-2005, 10:58 PM
Innervate hasn't been changed, and yes it's ├╝ber, targeted 550 mana regen per tick while casting is amazing in boss fights (evocation is channelled so it's worse in 2 respects)

Moonkin form looks pretty nice.

The text for nature's reach implies that hurricane is being made a normal spell (AoE for druids, whatever will they think of next?)

The 80% threat reduction on tranquility is also pretty amazing, on top of subtlety that's only 5% the aggro of a normal heal, there's pretty much no way that you'll overaggro doing it (which was the second biggest problem with it, after the cooldown).

Edit: Subtlety is 20%, does that mean that tranquility is now 0% aggro? :?:

Reflection is now cheaper (3 points instead of 5, and 1 tier lower to boot)

Subtlety is also moved lower in the tree, which is a buff to the other trees, you can now take it without giving up the 31 point talent if you are going mainly in another tree, and subtlety is essential for main healing IMO.

I was never a fan of feral, but the new tree does look pretty nice if you are that way inclined.

Nivellen
24-09-2005, 01:26 AM
Okay, so Feral spec and Balance spec were modified to be more viable, and also wanted in groups because of Moonkin Form/Leader of the Pack.

However on the negative side, they put Nature's Reach talent a tier up (more talents required to spend to get it). This means that if you spec and go for Innervate you won't be able to have Innervate + Feral Charge + Nature's Reach at the same time. The current talent tree alows to have all of these, and that's how I'm specced right now. (For me Innervate, Feral Charge, Nature's Reach and Nature's Grasp formed a very good compromise for PvE and PvP).

For me the druid talent tree update in 1.8 is not good. Since I will most likely not resign from using Innervate which is very good and very much wanted in endgame instances. Patch 1.8 will gimp me, I won't be able to have all those sexy things I do now. Overally I think however the talent update is positive.

Actually the talent update is not positive, it's uber! Makes our specs so much more worth it.

Tsarina
24-09-2005, 01:00 PM
I'll only accept Feral/balance druids in my PvP teams after 1.8 :P

Flawless
24-09-2005, 04:57 PM
O
M
G
Noo you cant ditch Ycon teh healbotz0rs! :P

Kathra
25-09-2005, 12:18 PM
Hm, cant decide whether this looks bad or good.

-Moonkin looks nice, it finally gives us some kind of defensive move for grouping, as in the past all we could do is sit there in bear and act like a lemon.
This means that druids WILL be viable damage dealers in groups however, with some nice spirit and mana restore you'll be able to rack up some mean ranged dps.
I cant believe they removed swiftshifting, the 90% of absolute retards who said "But waht doss it dew? i dun wan shifft too secks aftor anothr!"

-Resto looks a lot better, only 3 points now in rejuv, Furor has been stacked together.

-Feral looks AWFUL. There are some nice buffs such as the prowl buff lower in the tree. But the thing that REALLY pisses me off is the fact that our 31 talent is a GROUP BUFF!!
Why the hell do you make the "soloing" option - feral (Balance druids will need a tank, and no resto druid wants aggro) an AOE BUFF? This just confuses the hell out of me, I loved the 35% ravage, the 25% off our shifts etc.

Dissapointment in general, i know myself like many others will find the cookie cutter build with the key abilities such as grasp/charge/innervate/NS so not much has really changed.

This has however given me a very good but expensive idea for a movie :O

girney
01-10-2005, 01:22 PM
This talent change is 100% good in my opinion, since all they did was Buff 2 trees, giving druids the opportunity to deal some nice damage, the only bad thing is that it offers us the choice of ditching innervate...
Prepatch (1.7 actually) all we could do really good was Healing, Tanking and After 1.7 we got some nice Feral DPS (sorry to that three hit gnome mage today).
After 1.8 we will be able to choose to do Magelike damage in Molten Core or (as now already) be a full healer. I like the idea of being 11/40/0 specced and compete with mages and rogues in MC, we also offer a very good buff to rogues/hunters/DPS warriors that would qualify us to MC over shamans or DPS warriors.
Currently i think the 0/20/31 build would be best for me, so i can go Catform in MC when my healing ain't needed, and heal when it is, putting the 20 Talent points into Balance does not seem appealing to me, since Catform DPS is just bigger - no equipment change required though.

Nivellen
01-10-2005, 01:39 PM
Do you think that with the right spec and equipment we could do as much damage as a rogue or mage in MC? I find that hard to believe. :o

Ashborn
01-10-2005, 01:53 PM
As much as a mage, maybe. Not as much as a warlock/rogue/hunter.

Kabhanda
01-10-2005, 01:55 PM
or priest!

Ashborn
01-10-2005, 02:00 PM
Or priest.

Kathra
01-10-2005, 02:20 PM
This talent change is 100% good in my opinion, since all they did was Buff 2 trees, giving druids the opportunity to deal some nice damage, the only bad thing is that it offers us the choice of ditching innervate...
Prepatch (1.7 actually) all we could do really good was Healing, Tanking and After 1.7 we got some nice Feral DPS (sorry to that three hit gnome mage today).
After 1.8 we will be able to choose to do Magelike damage in Molten Core or (as now already) be a full healer. I like the idea of being 11/40/0 specced and compete with mages and rogues in MC, we also offer a very good buff to rogues/hunters/DPS warriors that would qualify us to MC over shamans or DPS warriors.
Currently i think the 0/20/31 build would be best for me, so i can go Catform in MC when my healing ain't needed, and heal when it is, putting the 20 Talent points into Balance does not seem appealing to me, since Catform DPS is just bigger - no equipment change required though.

Disagree with being able to "catform it up" in MC. Unlike rogues who simply need phat daggers to do sickly dps (shown by the video heph linked). We'll need the fire resi gear, meaning almost no stats for extra damage. Because blizzard

STILL

arent implementing weapon scaling, we're gimped in MC

Ashborn
01-10-2005, 02:22 PM
You really don't need fr in mc, 'cept for the ragna fight.

Kathra
01-10-2005, 02:26 PM
You really don't need fr in mc, 'cept for the ragna fight.

:| Fair enough then.

girney
08-10-2005, 08:29 AM
Well, Kathra, we cannot scale our damage by choosing high DPS weapons, but we can modify our attack power by choosing the right items. If i put all my Catform Stuff on i reach a total of 850 Attack Power totaly unbuffed - with MotW, GoA-Totem, SotE-Totem and Battle shout ic an easily reach 1.3k AP.

The bad thing is - noone lets me test it in MC :S
The only proves i got in Darkwhisper Gorge Farming for an Eye of Shadow where i had steady 160 DPS more or less unbuffed and, of course, PvP - i doubt that mage i critted for 1688 lately would agree i am "gimped" damagewise :)

Kathra
08-10-2005, 09:10 AM
Well, Kathra, we cannot scale our damage by choosing high DPS weapons, but we can modify our attack power by choosing the right items. If i put all my Catform Stuff on i reach a total of 850 Attack Power totaly unbuffed - with MotW, GoA-Totem, SotE-Totem and Battle shout ic an easily reach 1.3k AP.

The bad thing is - noone lets me test it in MC :S
The only proves i got in Darkwhisper Gorge Farming for an Eye of Shadow where i had steady 160 DPS more or less unbuffed and, of course, PvP - i doubt that mage i critted for 1688 lately would agree i am "gimped" damagewise :)

See the main problem i think is this.

Rogues have two choices -

-Crit gear, hard-hitting daggers. Either way your dps is going to be high
-Attack power/agi gear, Talents such as Coldblood/Remorseless, where crits are inevitable.


If i go for crit gear, my general dps is going to be terrible, if i go for DAMAGE gear, im never going to crit.

Which is why we need dps scaling weapons, i want an earthshaker that boosts my cat dps


:x

Alia
08-10-2005, 09:16 AM
Lies! u want Godmode.

Lothereon
08-10-2005, 11:12 AM
At total lack of a Rogue to be found anywhere a couple of nights ago I went cat form Scholo style. I was able to get a steady DPS of just under 200 in gear which varies in usefulness (was still wearing WH Kilt) but rest of of it was pretty rogue esk (3 SC, Scholo Breatplate, Eye of Rend). Seemed to work well, though total lack of stunlock was a bitch.

girney
08-10-2005, 11:12 AM
Sorry, i think you forgot to mention the Problem :S
Also, you can use weapons to boost your damage - a strength enchanted Bonecrusher will give you 90 AP as well as 1% crit.
Also your rogue and choice stuff is not quite convincing...

Kathra
08-10-2005, 04:46 PM
Sorry, i think you forgot to mention the Problem :S
Also, you can use weapons to boost your damage - a strength enchanted Bonecrusher will give you 90 AP as well as 1% crit.
Also your rogue and choice stuff is not quite convincing...

How is it not convincing? I'll try and explain it.



Rogue 1: "Hey, i just got my SC hood, this adds a load of agi/str/stam. I dont care about crit rates, because im specced for cold blood"
Rogue 2: "Wtf n00b! im liek full combat/sub spec! my eye of rend pwns j00"



Either way, both rogues are going to frequently crit at high damage because of their weapons, Now take situation 2.

Druid 1: "Hey, just got SC hood, isnt it leet? I dont crit at all, but my dps has generally risen."
Druid 2: "Hey, i just got an eye of rend. Im critting loads but my dps suxx0rs"


See the problem yet? Its all about talents.

girney
10-10-2005, 08:17 AM
Agi affects crits, too, btw, you know that of course, but still, this is not my Problem. Sure, if you say so Rogues can go for Crits or Damage.

But i am no Rogue.

So, going for Crits with my Druid would be silly because i am superior to rogues in the Damage way, since I get 2 AP per Str, and they don't. I can live with the lower crit rate then.

Turiel
10-10-2005, 12:00 PM
Well... coldblood is a guaranteed crit every 3 minutes (and most people forget to use it that often, including me). So nobody really relies on that for their crits. If you're a sword or mace rogue, you're relying on gear and talents for your crits with sinister strike. As a dagger rogue, you're relying on talents mainly. Without crit gear, backstab and ambush will still crit most of the time.

So the people who aren't too crazy about crit gear are dagger rogues, as opposed to coldblood specced rogues. But eh most of the time they will be coldblood specced anyway.

Kathra
10-10-2005, 04:25 PM
So, going for Crits with my Druid would be silly because i am superior to rogues in the Damage way, since I get 2 AP per Str, and they don't. I can live with the lower crit rate then.

Thats one of my main points. Rogue DPS is awesome because of the high crits, but druids will never get this type of DPS output.

girney
12-10-2005, 09:43 AM
But rogues will never get 1000 Attack Power. I do.

Lothereon
12-10-2005, 10:14 AM
Thats damn impressive, I can't break the 800 mark (damn substandard gear), though I do get a 18% crit chance on about 750 attack power.