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View Full Version : What type of warrior is allowed in the MC raids?


Pogel
26-08-2005, 10:42 AM
Hello,

I've been slowly collecting +def gear but someone in the guild told me the MC raid groups only allow protection specced warriors to tank...I'm arms/fury so is it true? And if so, do you still allow warriors to come and do DPS with a reaper? I've heard stories of guilds not allowing MS and Deep Wounds cos it takes up debuff slots.

Taurusos
26-08-2005, 11:15 AM
Hello,

I've been slowly collecting +def gear but someone in the guild told me the MC raid groups only allow protection specced warriors to tank...I'm arms/fury so is it true? And if so, do you still allow warriors to come and do DPS with a reaper? I've heard stories of guilds not allowing MS and Deep Wounds cos it takes up debuff slots.

As long as we have the amount of warriors we need in our raids who are prot specced and know what are capable off, we invite other spec warriors also.
Those warriors will be invited as dps and "omg-all-tanks-are-dead-tank-plzzzzz111!!!!" players.

But many raids close their doors to more new people as we have done for now in Ordo Templi Draconis, since we have the numbers needed and also others on waiting list.

MSG me ingame Pogel for ya reaper and more explanation of this.

/Taurusos

Bagrok
26-08-2005, 11:57 AM
MSG me ingame Pogel for ya reaper

comercial ftw!

buy my 11 arcane crystals too then & i have 1 bar =D

Karadros
26-08-2005, 05:34 PM
I tend to ignore OTD.

Pogel
26-08-2005, 06:04 PM
I will msg you when I get the money :D Got all the materials ready now

Taurusos
26-08-2005, 06:24 PM
I tend to ignore OTD.

Oooooh the bitterness.

Where is Kenny btw lol.

/mourn Kardaros


Taurusos from ORDO TEMPLI DRACONIS!

Pogel
27-08-2005, 01:49 AM
Karadros why are you negative about OTD? and why respec in the middle of a strat run lol

Karadros
27-08-2005, 01:55 AM
1) Far too elitist for my tastes.
2) 'cos I couldn't hold aggro with the POS build I thought would work. That and I love sword spec too much to start using axes.

Taurusos from ORDO TEMPLI DRACONIS!

You say that like I DON'T know you're from OTD, and CAN'T see it to the side of every single post you make here... :?

Artemisia
31-08-2005, 07:48 PM
A good raid setup will need warriors with both DPS and protection talent setups. Its not any good if all warriors are protection build since the raid will loose a lot of DPS. So a good balance is the way to go. That beeing said the most important aspect of a warrior will always be tanking. That is you need to have the best +def gear available no matter what build.

A safe build would be 31/0/20. Deep wounds should be doable for most raid parties. Especially after 1.7

Karadros
01-09-2005, 08:36 PM
That's the one I respecced OUT of. Maybe it was just the lack of sword spec that threw me, I dunno, but I found that the Prot abilities didn't generate enough rage for me to sunder as much as I'm used to.

Artemisia
01-09-2005, 09:07 PM
That's the one I respecced OUT of. Maybe it was just the lack of sword spec that threw me, I dunno, but I found that the Prot abilities didn't generate enough rage for me to sunder as much as I'm used to.

That _REALLY_ shouldn't be a problem in MC. The 20 protection points are there for damage migration and rage should be plentyfull while tanking in MC :P

the 31/0/20 isn't my build though. It is however a very good allround build.

Temmink
02-09-2005, 06:43 PM
A bit off topic, but I just hope Blizzard will toss out the deepwounds talent some day. It's not only crappy because every warrior who has it creates a new debuff slot with it, but it screws up solo/pvp play as well. My only 'stun' is intimidating shout which I use for when things go completely wrong (grinding those elite scarlets in EP and getting adds for example) so i can bandage myself (or run away like a little girl). With deep wounds it's useless.

Muley
02-09-2005, 06:50 PM
it cancels bandage....

what type of warrior is allowed in MC? Good ones...

Temmink
03-09-2005, 10:57 AM
it cancels bandage....

what type of warrior is allowed in MC? Good ones...

Use rend if you're worried about that

Locowar
03-09-2005, 04:44 PM
I love it when Im enraged and I crit... massive crit and a 140 per tick DoT on the enemy^_^

Alakhai
04-09-2005, 12:53 AM
huh? is deep wounds also affected by enrage?

Locowar
04-09-2005, 08:04 AM
seems so..

Jarelan
04-09-2005, 09:33 AM
I thought deep wounds damage was a percentage of the crit that did it, so yeah, if you do a massive crit with enrage (plus crusader buff if you have it) then the damage per tick from deep wounds can be huge.

Flagg
04-09-2005, 09:56 AM
huh? is deep wounds also affected by enrage?

Nope

http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=12834

Besides warriors usually only go for deep wounds so they can get impale

-Flagg-

pegastud
08-09-2005, 01:52 PM
taking non tanking warriors to mc is as worse as taking rogues with you.
Ok rogues do A LOT of dmg, but need so much healing that their extra dmg compared to other classes doesnt matter anymore. Warlocks, Mages & hunters as dmgdealers in mc ftw!

btw all tanks dead = dont bother letting a dmg specced warrior take over! you already whiped anyway.

Artemisia
08-09-2005, 02:09 PM
taking non tanking warriors to mc is as worse as taking rogues with you.
Ok rogues do A LOT of dmg, but need so much healing that their extra dmg compared to other classes doesnt matter anymore. Warlocks, Mages & hunters as dmgdealers in mc ftw!

btw all tanks dead = dont bother letting a dmg specced warrior take over! you already whiped anyway.

So a hunter thought he wanted to share some "wisdom" in here :) I dont know if it should be dignified with any longer response than that :P

Kabhanda
08-09-2005, 02:11 PM
Lets just say we have had a MS specced warrior step in and tank rag mid fight, its fine.

Flawless
08-09-2005, 03:01 PM
Lets just say we have had a MS specced warrior step in and tank rag mid fight, its fine.

this wouldnt be a certain dorf when caladan died was it? who was seen charging threw the air? ^_^

Flagg
08-09-2005, 03:23 PM
Lets just say we have had a MS specced warrior step in and tank rag mid fight, its fine.

Warriors are quite possibly the most dear dependant class in the game, arms/fury warriors can successfully MT tank onyxia (I have seen this done in a video) and take over from the MT protection specced warriors should they go down. Its all down to gear at the end of the day. If a warrior has high +stam, +def and +acc then they should be ok in an emergancy. I have even read in the warriors forums that ex-protection spec now cookie cutter say they lost about 15% of their aggro/tanking abilities when they respecc (I guess the protection tree needs more love).

-Flagg-

Harshak
08-09-2005, 03:48 PM
taking non tanking warriors to mc is as worse as taking rogues with you.
Ok rogues do A LOT of dmg, but need so much healing that their extra dmg compared to other classes doesnt matter anymore. Warlocks, Mages & hunters as dmgdealers in mc ftw!

btw all tanks dead = dont bother letting a dmg specced warrior take over! you already whiped anyway.

Gl taking down rag without a single rogue...unless u have 20 Ashen's prepare for fighting several waves of sons

Taurusos
08-09-2005, 05:04 PM
not taking rogues to MC?


O_o

o_O


???


Most be a hunter weapon.

Artemisia
09-09-2005, 07:41 AM
btw all tanks dead = dont bother letting a dmg specced warrior take over! you already whiped anyway.

At some point we have probably had fury or arms warriors tank about any Mob or boss in MC. Its mostly about gear - not spec. Im more surprised anyone brought you to MC :D

pegastud
09-09-2005, 12:05 PM
lemme rephraise =

lets assume a rogue takes twice as much dmg as a hunter(big understatement) so requires twice as much healing. Shamans heal rogues. Shamans have (some of them) good dps. Shamans do not require healing(self healing). So we got 6 shamans & 6 rogues for example. If we replace those rogues with hunters & shamans, we need half the healing. Which frees up 3 shamans who actually can go do dmg. I'm guessing that a total of 9 hunters and shamans have more dps that 6 rogues?
And iirc from previous raids, there werent that much rogues in the topof my dmg meter. (except synid who mystericly outdamages the other rogues radicaly)

Kabhanda
09-09-2005, 12:16 PM
Well, I think its generally accepted rogues and dps specced warriors are very high up in damage dealt in MC.

Yes, both suck for shazrah, but shaz is a piss easy encounter anyway. Ashen is our only ranged dpser who regularly deals more damage in a raid than rogues, so what if they need a bit of healing? Most encounters in MC are soo much easier with a real bias towards stupid dps. If you kill the boss alot faster you need less healing, therefore need less healers.

Therefore rogues and dps warriors are great :)

Equally, imo there is no point in a guild (or inter guild alliance type thing) having more than 2 prot specced warriors, all that does is gimp raid dps without cause (and i'm sure you can agree you do need to have more than 2 warriors in MC, for garr, sulf and domo atleast).

Tarun
09-09-2005, 12:29 PM
Maybe the rogues in our current raid arent as good as rogues are supposed to pega? :p

pegastud
09-09-2005, 12:37 PM
Maybe the rogues in our current raid arent as good as rogues are supposed to pega? :p

seems to look that way. Or we got very good warlocks , warriors, mages, hunters cause those are the ppl who do most dmg in our raid group iirc. Last time i can remember looking at my dmg meter, there were like 2 rogues in the top 10 out of 6.

Ashborn
09-09-2005, 01:29 PM
A good rogue *can't* be outdamaged by a mage or a hunter (unless said mage and hunter have extremely good gear) in just about any encounter. Perhaps you can draw some conclusions from this.

Tarun
09-09-2005, 02:01 PM
Any rogue that would like to make a guide on how to do DPS in MC? :p

pegastud
09-09-2005, 02:27 PM
Any rogue that would like to make a guide on how to do DPS in MC? :p

have been a few runs already that i actually joined the raid. But i do think the key to success in our case would have been : try to stay alive during the whole encounter. No use in doing loads of dps and die in the middle of the fight. I just have the impression most of our rogues dont know the importance of resistances. Or just dont feel like spending loads of money to get some resistances. (ok i'm a little freaky on res for being a hunter though)

Ailith
09-09-2005, 02:31 PM
I haven't anyone to goto MC with :( But my guess would be:

Cheap Shot (or ambush depending on target & what other rogues are doing)
Backstab
Backstab
Cold Blood
Eviscerate
Backstab
Backstab
Backstab
Backstab
Backstab
Eviscerate

yadda yadda, assuming they're using daggers... And they shouldn't forget to feint.

As I said I haven't been to MC though :( but from what I've heard rogues shouldn't be consuming that much healing. The only time they should be receiving damage is from aoe, all the raids I've been on before (though true, not mc) hunters have taken more damage then me and dealt less damage.

hmmm, I need to MC one day :*

Ashborn
09-09-2005, 02:42 PM
Resistances mean shit in MC (excluding rag, and tanks on fire based mobs). Most aoe happening is of the physical variety anyways, at least on trash, and generally fire res gear gimps your stats way too much. Rogues do need healing, but in a well balanced raid it shouldn't be much of a problem, considering they deal constant and extremely high dps in exchange for those heals.

Harshak
09-09-2005, 03:33 PM
Guess this thread wasn't meant to turn into how to be a rogue in mc, but there only really one thing that matters for a rogue in mc: "dont get aggro". The classic a dead rogue's dps is 0. On most trash mobs aggro shouldnt matter since they should be dead fast anyway, but u dont want magmadar looking straight into your face, just ask antero:l

When ashen get's BoS and the occasional heal his 400dps is a bit too much for us rogues to follow, but the next 3 spots in the dmg rankings are rogues throw in a mage once in a while with that aoe godness..

Conclusion: Tell your rogues to stop sucking.

Eriandor
18-01-2006, 06:40 PM
o.O i'm a 31/5/15 spec and i'm the MT for on everything, works quite fine, mostly comes down to gear, with good tanking gear you're survivable as hell and with the right DPS gear you're death on two legs.