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Ring0
11-12-2010, 01:06 AM
Would like to update all the first to 85's for all classes and professions on the main page for posterity's sake. If you'd like to be on there just throw me a PM or post here with a link to your armoury.

If you've got a screenshot of it so I can organize it chronologically that'd be great.

Flury
13-12-2010, 06:18 AM
Perhaps this helps :)

http://eu.wowarmory.com/achievement-firsts.xml?r=Shadowsong

thurlog
13-12-2010, 08:21 AM
not really
These aren't the Armory pages you're looking for.
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We apologize for the inconvenience. Rest assured that many goblins* were cast into the fiery abyss of the Molten Core for this transgression!

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Alverion
13-12-2010, 06:36 PM
Seems to work fine for me, but here is the list anyway. This does them all the way back to level 80 but you can sort it out from there. It's chronological in date and time order from most recent to oldest

Realm First! Illustrious Jewelcrafter
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in jewelcrafting.
By Storpotäten
<Hive> Storpotäten
earned on 10-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Tailor
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in tailoring.
By Urmetal, Urmetal
<Impact> Urmetal, <Impact> Urmetal
earned on 8-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Leatherworker
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in leatherworking.
By Narayan
<Original> Narayan
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Scribe
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in inscription.
By Lyahara
<Hive> Lyahara
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Level 85 Warlock
First warlock on the realm to achieve level 85.
By Compute
<Hive> Compute
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Engineer
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in engineering.
By Shankill, Shankill
<Shadowknights> Shankill, <Shadowknights> Shankill
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Enchanter
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in enchanting.
By Loppy
<Vildvittrorna> Loppy
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Level 85 Death Knight
First death knight on the realm to achieve level 85.
By Amidamaruu
Amidamaruu
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Archaeologist
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in archaeology.
By Pyroc
<Immersion> Pyroc
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Blacksmith
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in blacksmithing.
By Sìrath
<Wrath> Sìrath
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Level 85 Priest
First priest on the realm to achieve level 85.
By Sparetime
<Wrath> Sparetime
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Grand Master Archaeologist
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in archaeology.
By Pyroc, Pyroc, Pyroc, Pyroc, Pyroc
<Immersion> Pyroc, <Immersion> Pyroc, <Immersion> Pyroc, <Immersion> Pyroc, <Immersion> Pyroc
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Level 85 Rogue
First rogue on the realm to achieve level 85.
By Roesslol
<Fury> Roesslol
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Level 85 Paladin
First paladin on the realm to achieve level 85.
By Dukka
<MCO> Dukka
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Level 85 Mage
First mage on the realm to achieve level 85.
By Dumlan
<Hive> Dumlan
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Level 85 Warrior
First warrior on the realm to achieve level 85.
By Croazill
<Fury> Croazill
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Level 85 Shaman
First shaman on the realm to achieve level 85.
By Numsepirat
<Fury> Numsepirat
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Level 85 Hunter
First hunter on the realm to achieve level 85.
By Bidaum, Ruoste
<Wrath> Bidaum, <Wrath> Ruoste
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Level 85 Druid
First druid on the realm to achieve level 85.
By Tarasín
<Wrath> Tarasín
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Level 85
First person on the realm to achieve level 85.
By Tarasín
<Wrath> Tarasín
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious First Aid
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in first aid.
By Ribbit
<Wanted> Ribbit
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Alchemist
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in alchemy.
By Stingmonger
<Hive> Stingmonger
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Angler
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in fishing.
By Uldamme
<Undergrounders> Uldamme
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Skinner
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in skinning.
By Junzil
<Abyss> Junzil
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Herbalism
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in herbalism.
By Fun
<Goblins> Fun
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Miner
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in mining.
By Ellgee
<Fallen Shadow> Ellgee
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Illustrious Cooking
First person on the realm to achieve 525 skill in cooking.
By Castaros
<Alter Ego> Castaros
earned on 7-12-2010

Realm First! Fall of the Lich King
Participated in the realm first defeat of the Lich King in 25-player heroic mode.
By <Wrath>(21)
<Wrath>
Amberley, Bahi, Bohemia, Harmageddon, Kryptonix, Kzuhl, Morilith, Màz, Ngebe, Oneiros, Ravakahn, Reclusiam, Rhidon, Ruoste, Seductive, Sparetime, Spasi, Tarasín, Tierer, Vondur, Zerotaste
earned on 5-9-2010

Realm First! Grand Crusader
Participated in the realm first conquest of the Trial of the Grand Crusader with 50 attempts remaining in 25-player mode.
By <Wrath>(25)
<Wrath>
Avent, Bohemia, Condition, Harmageddon, Laianor, Morilith, Ngebe, Oneiros, Onirico, Rapscallion, Reclusiam, Rerz, Rhidon, Ruki, Ruoste, Saha, Sektor, Tarasín, Tarqy, Tosgin, Valence, Vígìl, Yyrkoon, Zej, Zerotaste
earned on 1-11-2009

Realm First! Celestial Defender
Participated in the realm first defeat of Algalon the Observer in 25-player mode.
By <Wrath>(25)
<Wrath>
Amberley, Ashborn, Avent, Ayael, Condition, Grimreàper, Holo, Kardh, Margita, Morilith, Ngebe, Oneiros, Rapscallion, Reclusiam, Rerz, Rhidon, Ruki, Ruoste, Saha, Sektor, Tarasín, Tarqy, Twigg, Zej, Zerotaste
earned on 8-9-2009

Realm First! Death's Demise
Participated in the realm first defeat of Yogg-Saron without the assistance of any Keepers in 25-player mode.
By <Wrath>(25)
<Wrath>
Amberley, Ashborn, Avent, Bohemia, Condition, Grimreàper, Harr, Holo, Kabalé, Kardh, Morilith, Ngebe, Rapscallion, Rears, Reclusiam, Ruki, Ruoste, Saha, Sektor, Tarasín, Tarqy, Tosgin, Twigg, Zej, Zerotaste
earned on 30-8-2009

Realm First! Grand Master Tailor
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in tailoring.
By Kabalé
<Wrath> Kabalé
earned on 25-11-2008

Realm First! Northrend Vanguard
First player on the realm to gain exalted reputation with the Argent Crusade, Wyrmrest Accord, Kirin Tor and Knights of the Ebon Blade.
By Angêlus
<Core of Insight> Angêlus
earned on 24-11-2008

Realm First! Magic Seeker
Participated in the realm first defeat of Malygos in 25-player mode.
By <Wrath>(25)
<Wrath>
Asgård, Ashborn, Ayael, Condítíon, Crash, Harr, Holo, Kaana, Kabalé, Kardh, Kataoko, Macatonic, Morilith, Ngebe, Oneiros, Rapscallion, Rears, Reclusiam, Ruoste, Saha, Sharapova, Tarqy, Thoojs, Thunderhead, Waagh
earned on 22-11-2008

Realm First! Cooking Grand Master
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in cooking.
By Decebalus
<Wave of Heroes> Decebalus
earned on 21-11-2008

Realm First! Conqueror of Naxxramas
Participated in the realm first defeat of Kel'Thuzad in Naxxramas in 25-player mode.
By <Wrath>(25)
<Wrath>
Asgård, Ashborn, Aventious, Ayael, Condítíon, Crash, Dèlirium, Harr, Kaana, Kabalé, Kardh, Macatonic, Meteh, Morilith, Ngebe, Oneiros, Rapscallion, Rears, Reclusiam, Ruoste, Saha, Sharapova, Tarqy, Thunderhead, Waagh
earned on 20-11-2008

Realm First! Obsidian Slayer
Participated in the realm first defeat of Sartharion the Onyx Guardian in 25-player mode.
By <Caek>(1), and<Core of Insight>(15)
<Caek>
Broker
<Core of Insight>
Andromedia, Angellic, Angêlus, Arzja, Bromlebass, Chonar, Chéls, Eldanoth, Elovie, Fitzlestick, Fladimirr, Jaehaerys, Jolbo, Malphes, Palados
earned on 19-11-2008

Realm First! Grand Master Engineer
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in engineering.
By Zhenya
<Sinituulen Laulu> Zhenya
earned on 19-11-2008

Realm First! Grand Master Leatherworker
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in leatherworking.
By Tinxa
<Original> Tinxa
earned on 17-11-2008

Realm First! Grand Master Scribe
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in inscription.
By Kenjy
<Devotion> Kenjy
earned on 17-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Gnome
First gnome on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Jaehaerys
<Core of Insight> Jaehaerys
earned on 16-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Death Knight
First death knight on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Waagh
<Wrath> Waagh
earned on 16-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Mage
First mage on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Pilch
<Volition> Pilch
earned on 16-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Troll
First troll on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Ruoste
<Wrath> Ruoste
earned on 16-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Tauren
First tauren on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Skydiver
<Hive> Skydiver
earned on 16-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Druid
First druid on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Skydiver
<Hive> Skydiver
earned on 16-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Hunter
First hunter on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Navai
<Volition> Navai
earned on 16-11-2008

Realm First! Grand Master Enchanter
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in enchanting.
By Strawberry
<Devotion> Strawberry
earned on 16-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Dwarf
First dwarf on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Fitzlestick
<Core of Insight> Fitzlestick
earned on 16-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Night Elf
First night elf on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Maelwen
<Ancarim Iron Legion> Maelwen
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Warrior
First warrior on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Maelwen
<Ancarim Iron Legion> Maelwen
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Draenei
First draenei on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Razzeh
<Genesis> Razzeh
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Shaman
First shaman on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Razzeh
<Genesis> Razzeh
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Human
First human on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Stremadin
<Volition> Stremadin
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Paladin
First paladin on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Stremadin
<Volition> Stremadin
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Orc
First orc on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Ngebe
<Wrath> Ngebe
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Rogue
First rogue on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Ngebe
<Wrath> Ngebe
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Blood Elf
First blood elf on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Kaana
<Wrath> Kaana
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Priest
First priest on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Kaana
<Wrath> Kaana
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Grand Master Blacksmith
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in blacksmithing.
By Sheriden
<Retribution> Sheriden
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Forsaken
First forsaken on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Kabalé
<Wrath> Kabalé
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80 Warlock
First warlock on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Kabalé
<Wrath> Kabalé
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Level 80
First person on the realm to achieve level 80.
By Kabalé
<Wrath> Kabalé
earned on 15-11-2008

Realm First! Grand Master Alchemist
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in alchemy.
By Kenshiin
<Insanity of Fate> Kenshiin
earned on 14-11-2008

Realm First! Grand Master Jewelcrafter
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in jewelcrafting.
By Blackblade
<Original> Blackblade
earned on 14-11-2008

Realm First! First Aid Grand Master
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in first aid.
By Semilodare
<Division Svea> Semilodare
earned on 13-11-2008

Realm First! Grand Master Miner
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in mining.
By Storpotäten
<Division Svea> Storpotäten
earned on 13-11-2008

Realm First! Grand Master Herbalist
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in herbalism.
By Kenshiin
<Insanity of Fate> Kenshiin
earned on 13-11-2008

Realm First! Grand Master Angler
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in fishing.
By Lysmachia
<Soulriders of the felwen> Lysmachia
earned on 13-11-2008

Realm First! Grand Master Skinner
First person on the realm to achieve 450 skill in skinning.
By Galan
<Spectrum> Galan
earned on 13-11-2008

thurlog
13-12-2010, 09:47 PM
now it works yes.. prolly coz armory was buggered last week

Ashym
13-12-2010, 11:37 PM
Anyone know the first unofficial 1-85 worgen? (+ goblin :p) Just levelled 85 on mine 5 mins ago, 3 days 8 hours 11 mins

Malakali
14-12-2010, 01:05 AM
Anyone know the first unofficial 1-85 worgen? (+ goblin :p) Just levelled 85 on mine 5 mins ago, 3 days 8 hours 11 mins

No.

inacup
14-12-2010, 09:34 AM
<-- was first Alliance to 85 \o/

Leafroy
21-12-2010, 10:56 AM
<-- was first Alliance to 85 \o/

Grats on that cup, sadly i heard most the alliance went horde. Is this true?

Seems a good place than any to put the feelers out.

Is cataclysm any good? Most the real life friends i had in game etc all quit before i did.. In fact to show how staggering an amount it works out 95% of them did..(19/20)

This still remains the same and with the amazing sudden price drop of cataclysm getting it flagged as ''Flop of the year'' in most reputable reviews. The wife and i would be greatfull of some feedback if possible.

Curious to know what you guys think of it now youve had a few weeks to settle in. Raids, questing,crafts, new style of all classes they fixed even when not broke originally:P

Mainly to put my rather bored unoccupied mind at peace hehe :)

Anyways waiting for your reply/s good luck and take care.

Leafy :)

Feihcretsam
21-12-2010, 12:06 PM
Oh Cataclysm is really awesome, the only negative thing I have to say is that there are quite some bugs around currently... Also the attempt to make 10man compete with 25man is a bit stupid, it will always be for the casuals. Then again some people like casual play sooo, whatever floats your boat :D Just dont compare your 10man guild with the real 25man guilds :P

Ruoste
21-12-2010, 02:21 PM
This still remains the same and with the amazing sudden price drop of cataclysm getting it flagged as ''Flop of the year'' in most reputable reviews. The wife and i would be greatfull of some feedback if possible.
Flop? I haven't seen any reputable reviews like that... Metacritic for example has only positive reviews (if you don't count user reviews). I can understand that someone who didn't like the old WoW might still not like this either.

It's absolutely the biggest WoW expansion yet. Almost every old zone has been redone, some radically. 1-60 leveling experience has been totally redone and flows much better than before. Most of the quests are new and the rewards are better and make more sense. 80 to 85 leveling maybe went past a bit too fast but we also had flying mounts all the way through it so that sped things up a lot. New zones and quests are still very well done with some very unique and fun quests scattered here and there (in 1-60 bracket too). If you want to get most out of the expansion you should start a goblin or worgen character.

All the classes have more or less been totally redone. Talent trees are shorter and better IMO. They removed most of the clutter talents. Some classes also play quite differently now than before.

There's a new world PvP zone and two new battlegrounds. You can also now do rated battleground matches, which should have been in the game all along.

Sure there are bugs here and there. I was still personally surprised how few big issues there were considering the expansion is HUGE. But what has been great is that they are now able to hotfix a lot of the issues without needing to do a client patch. They have already fixed a lot. Remember the time when we had to wait for weeks (or months) for a patch to fix almost anything at all.

Like Feihcretsam, one of the things I don't like is that Blizzard made it really difficult to track 10-person and 25-person raiding progresses apart from each other. Considering they really are not equal and never will be. Hopefully they will do something about it. I'll be happy if you can just keep track of if better.

Anyway. Yea I like the expansion thus far. :)

Tvirus
21-12-2010, 02:34 PM
@Feihcretsam: Lets not start a war between 10man and 25man raiding guilds :P everyone works hard ;) thats enough lol

@Leafroy: Cataclysm itself and the new instances/raids are ok... but as Feihcretsam there are quite a lot of bugs around as it's still early into the release so i'm hoping (and i'm sure everyone else is too) that blizzard get them fixed so the game is once again fun! ^_^

Edit: Looks like everyone wants to give 10man raiding a good put down so they don't feel as happy about their progress O.o wtg guys!

Turiel
21-12-2010, 02:35 PM
What I can see there being negativity from is the difficulty of dungeons. If you're used to cruising along and pugging a heroic in 30 minutes, Cataclysm is a shock to the system.

Pugging is dead (until the average gear level significantly increases, maybe not even till next tier of raiding).

A heroic can easily take 2 hours if not more.

Basically, if you're a casual, you're fucked.

Ruoste
21-12-2010, 03:14 PM
Edit: Looks like everyone wants to give 10man raiding a good put down so they don't feel as happy about their progress O.o wtg guys!
Nope. The different raid size encounters are different and should not be bunched together. I don't care which one ends up being harder or easier. In fact I remember Sartharion + three drakes being slightly more difficult early on in the WotLK with a 10-person group...

Fact is that it's logistically easier to raid with 10 people than 25. It affects 25-person raiding guilds ability to get decent recruits when most of the top places are taken by 10-person raiding guilds. I know Wowprogress is trying to separate the raid sizes again but it might not end up working very well.

Llort
21-12-2010, 03:31 PM
What I can see there being negativity from is the difficulty of dungeons. If you're used to cruising along and pugging a heroic in 30 minutes, Cataclysm is a shock to the system.

Pugging is dead (until the average gear level significantly increases, maybe not even till next tier of raiding).

A heroic can easily take 2 hours if not more.

Basically, if you're a casual, you're fucked.

As in vanilla :-) I know I was

Leafroy
21-12-2010, 04:16 PM
What I can see there being negativity from is the difficulty of dungeons. If you're used to cruising along and pugging a heroic in 30 minutes, Cataclysm is a shock to the system.

Pugging is dead (until the average gear level significantly increases, maybe not even till next tier of raiding).

A heroic can easily take 2 hours if not more.

Basically, if you're a casual, you're fucked.

I have no idea what i am in that respect:) Might look into it a bit more then as you seem to like what they have done..Thank you all for your views.

Robinvi
21-12-2010, 04:56 PM
What I can see there being negativity from is the difficulty of dungeons. If you're used to cruising along and pugging a heroic in 30 minutes, Cataclysm is a shock to the system.

Pugging is dead (until the average gear level significantly increases, maybe not even till next tier of raiding).

A heroic can easily take 2 hours if not more.

Basically, if you're a casual, you're fucked.

1 - 60 has become incredible easy since from how I remember it at least. Doesn't seem like they tweaked the instances and quesy accordingly to the new talents etc. Then again, I haven't leveled since vanilla, but I pretty much 1 shot mobs (and players for that matter) 10-60. I also cleared an instance with 3 people, 2 dps and 1 healer (pug) easily.

The leveling experience still was pretty great though. Lot's of good questlines and rewards compared to before.

Can't comment on 60+ yet.

Torm
23-12-2010, 05:30 PM
60+ hasn't been changed. The outlands+wotlk areas are still the same.

So it's a sort of let down since you're cruising on your way to 60, only to hit the BC wall :P

As was said, heroics is no joke and IMO thats fine. Even if I still haven't been able to complete them all yet :P

inacup
27-12-2010, 05:10 AM
Would be cool to hear from someone / something that have raided most content in both 10 man and 25 man. Obviously it's easier to organize and manage a raid group of 10 players compared to a 25 man group. That said, there will be far more kills on 10 man than on 25 man which we clearly can see at wowprogress.com. However, what encounters are more difficult depending on size, will allways depend on the encounter itself. Looking at the total amount of logs over at worldoflogs.com. There are generally more successful kills in 25 man mode than 10 man, with exceptions for Throne of four Winds and the Twilight Council in BoT. (Example: 12,5% of all 25 man pulls of Magmaw results in a kill whilst only 7,7% of the pulls in 10 man does.)

I've gone from 25 man raiding in Wotlk to 10 man in Cata. I feel like it's harder to get a balanced group in 10 man than 25 (certain roles needs to be filled for different encounters, which is easier with more players). And obviously getting all raidbuffs into a 25 man group is easier.

I'm under the impression that the encounters themselves are harder to beat in a 10 man group than with 25 players. However, running a 25 man raid will allways be harder to manage, not to mention finding 25 excellent players.

25 man raids will allways be the "real raiding" for me. Simply because it takes far more to organize and to stay on top. Just like a team winning a championship is worth far more than an individual winning the gold medal.

Malakali
27-12-2010, 11:24 AM
Just dont compare your 10man guild with the real 25man guilds

Just because there are 25 nerds in a group instead of 10 nerds, doesnt make it a real or better guild than any other.

Stupid ass comments about "Real" raiding being 25man is just a way of attempting to justify some claim that your ego is telling the world and your mummy that you are much better than everyone else cause you got plenty of people to cover you when you fuck up.

10 man raiding is just as much REAL and integral part of World of Warcraft as 25man.

Ofcourse, hats off to the 25man raid groups killing stuff - Would never attempt to play down those kills as achievments to be proud of but because 10 players want to raid together dont stick your brown tipped nose at them.

Feihcretsam
27-12-2010, 12:30 PM
I have nothing against 10mans, they are just as real as 25mans. I just don't think you should compare them. There are 10man realm firsts, and 25man realm first. What I hate is the people that call their 10man kill a realm first and someone else's 25man kill a realm 2nd.

Different league imo, I don't even think 25man is harder than 10man, it is just completely different and shouldn't be compared at all

Sruk
27-12-2010, 01:58 PM
they just should go back to where you could raid 10s and 25s :(

Tarasín
27-12-2010, 03:29 PM
Would be cool to hear from someone / something that have raided most content in both 10 man and 25 man. Obviously it's easier to organize and manage a raid group of 10 players compared to a 25 man group. That said, there will be far more kills on 10 man than on 25 man which we clearly can see at wowprogress.com. However, what encounters are more difficult depending on size, will allways depend on the encounter itself. Looking at the total amount of logs over at worldoflogs.com. There are generally more successful kills in 25 man mode than 10 man, with exceptions for Throne of four Winds and the Twilight Council in BoT. (Example: 12,5% of all 25 man pulls of Magmaw results in a kill whilst only 7,7% of the pulls in 10 man does.)

I've gone from 25 man raiding in Wotlk to 10 man in Cata. I feel like it's harder to get a balanced group in 10 man than 25 (certain roles needs to be filled for different encounters, which is easier with more players). And obviously getting all raidbuffs into a 25 man group is easier.

I'm under the impression that the encounters themselves are harder to beat in a 10 man group than with 25 players. However, running a 25 man raid will allways be harder to manage, not to mention finding 25 excellent players.

25 man raids will allways be the "real raiding" for me. Simply because it takes far more to organize and to stay on top. Just like a team winning a championship is worth far more than an individual winning the gold medal.

After seeing several good friends raiding 10mans now and myself raiding 25man I have no doubt that 10man is the easiere part. Why? Everyones entitled to their opinion on whats being 'hard' or not. Is it hard because your raidgroup/setup is silly because of inconpetent people in different classes or specs or maybe people are just bad :). Sure the same mechanics are to be found in 10man. All boss rooms are designed for 25man. Crammed rooms. Spread out 8 yards between each other yada yada yada for X ability (Poison spit, Chain lightning, basically anything that chains or will affect more than 1 target standing on top of each other). Now put 10 people in that room. Voila. You dont have to worry about where the heck your standing. That has a huge inpact on both learning curves and raiding in general.

You mention Magmaw. I'll mention Al'akir then. 103 kills on 25man, 701 on 10man. An encounter based on not chaining in p1 and p3. Easy peasy.
Theres no excuse here aswell about it being an endboss since Conclave of Random stat is a pushover in any raidsize.

Secondly. Don't use World of logs to check out what killed who and what. Not everyone uses it. red(wowmeteronline etc). Check on wowprogress. Up to 7000 kills on Magmaw 10, 1700 in 25man. Wether you want to interpret that was 'how hard is this boss' or not is up to you. Im not in doubt.

About getting raidbuffs into a 10man group. Thats up to you ofcourse. Generally when our mages remember to buff intellect we have 3 of the same buff in each raid. If you decide to raid with 3 DK's or 3 Druids it's of course 'your loss' in missing a raid buff. But you still kill stuff in 10man without em, ergo it's certainly doable.

Just because there are 25 nerds in a group instead of 10 nerds, doesnt make it a real or better guild than any other.

Stupid ass comments about "Real" raiding being 25man is just a way of attempting to justify some claim that your ego is telling the world and your mummy that you are much better than everyone else cause you got plenty of people to cover you when you fuck up.

10 man raiding is just as much REAL and integral part of World of Warcraft as 25man.

Ofcourse, hats off to the 25man raid groups killing stuff - Would never attempt to play down those kills as achievments to be proud of but because 10 players want to raid together dont stick your brown tipped nose at them.

Someone get out on the wrong side of the bed. The whole 'you can have people fuck up in 25man, you cant in 10man' is still sticking around for whatever reason. Some encounters, especially on heroic aswell is designed on people left alive to win. Blackout, Feud, Sleet Storm to mention the obvious ones.

Another note on 25man. You are able to keep almost the same setup in 10man for each boss whilest in 25man some bosses requires 3 tanks and 8 healers at the moment on heroic. Imagine blizzard making a 10man having same requirements like that. 3 tanks 4 healers 3 dps. Wont ever happen. 10man dps remains or increases in 10man, 25man goes down and everyone needs to add even more dps on a strained dps marker.

10man is indeed just as real as 25man. I've said before and i'll say it again. I would'nt mind a Realm first 10man XXX and same for 25man. Why Blizzard never picked up oin it is beyond me. I can see a few things here and there that might screw it up but with new raid lockouts etc if you do just a single boss on 10man hc you wont be able to do 25hc that week. So why even do it at all?

Happy raiding

Azy
27-12-2010, 04:00 PM
they just should go back to where you could raid 10s and 25s :(


40 man!

Malakali
28-12-2010, 01:01 AM
10man is indeed just as real as 25man. I've said before and i'll say it again. I would'nt mind a Realm first 10man XXX and same for 25man. Why Blizzard never picked up oin it is beyond me.


This makes sense, yeah. How does it stand at the moment? Say Guild A gather 25 and get a server first 25man kill but Guild B already did it yesterday with 10 - is the [Realm First, Random boss] already taken?

Turiel
28-12-2010, 03:59 AM
Why Blizzard never picked up oin it is beyond me

Because they are specifically pushing the agenda that 10mans are EQUAL to 25mans.

For some people, that will never be the case. Even if the 10man was twice as hard, they still would think that 25man is more difficult because you have to organise more people. That's a reasonably valid point, but maybe think about it this way.

Say, for the sake of argument, that the 10man is more difficult to execute properly than the 25man. In the 25man, there is a bigger margin for error. If this were true, it would balance out the fact that you have to organise more people by requiring a higher level of skill for the 10man. i.e. The raiders in a 10man have to be of higher average skill level than the raiders in a 25man.

I actually believe this to be true in some cases, at least for some heroic fights in WotLK. Having done them both in 10man and 25man, I can say that in many cases you cannot recover from a failure in 10man whereas you can compensate in a 25man. Dead person in 10man (on progression content)? You're probably fucked . Dead person in 25? You might be fucked.

I have seen very little raid content so far in Cata as we haven't really started yet, but for one of the fights I did in 10man - Halfus - I can say would definitely be easier in 25man purely due to the fact you can use 3 tanks instead of 2 and don't have to stack 12+ mortal strike debuffs.

But even if you don't agree with me about this being true in WotlK or Cata - what if it were true? Wouldn't more difficult encounters in 10man, relative to 25, balance out the 'challenge' of the logistics?

Greta
28-12-2010, 08:32 AM
The two things are never gonna be the same. And I dont see anyone claiming they are, people also nicely reports in the raidprogress post wether its a 10 or 25 man kill.

I dont get why people are upset about it though and calling something casual and the other thing real raiding is just silly and trying to belittle what others are having fun doing. I dont think Shadowsong has been in a real race to kill stuff since forever, we are just to different in our approach to raiding, time invested and what not.

And I guess each group has their own way of measuring wether they are doing well or not. I know we are not using the progress of other groups on Shadowsong to measure how well we are doing (unless we are in front ofc :-))

As to difficulty I honestly have no clue what is more or less difficult since I've only done 10 man in Cata. The gut feeling, based on historical fights is that the more people you are the harder it gets. But there's always stuff in individual fights that favors 10 or 25. For instance untill we figured out how to handle double attacks on Chimaeron I dreamt of doing it 25 man so we could just combat ress 3 tanks :-)

thurlog
28-12-2010, 08:34 AM
blizzard is obiously on a schedule to cut raiding at all and push everything into 5 mans. They stated themselves multiple times that the efforts to develop and maintain a raiding model takes too much resources.
They just didn't dare to cut out 25s (and 10s for that matter) yet being afraid of the uproar it might give.
Maybe already this expansion, but certainly next one you'll see super-heroic mode for dungeons being introduced as the replacement for raiding.

:)

Leafroy
28-12-2010, 08:48 AM
Flop? I haven't seen any reputable reviews like that... Metacritic for example has only positive reviews (if you don't count user reviews). I can understand that someone who didn't like the old WoW might still not like this either.

It's absolutely the biggest WoW expansion yet. Almost every old zone has been redone, some radically. 1-60 leveling experience has been totally redone and flows much better than before. Most of the quests are new and the rewards are better and make more sense. 80 to 85 leveling maybe went past a bit too fast but we also had flying mounts all the way through it so that sped things up a lot. New zones and quests are still very well done with some very unique and fun quests scattered here and there (in 1-60 bracket too). If you want to get most out of the expansion you should start a goblin or worgen character.

All the classes have more or less been totally redone. Talent trees are shorter and better IMO. They removed most of the clutter talents. Some classes also play quite differently now than before.

There's a new world PvP zone and two new battlegrounds. You can also now do rated battleground matches, which should have been in the game all along.

Sure there are bugs here and there. I was still personally surprised how few big issues there were considering the expansion is HUGE. But what has been great is that they are now able to hotfix a lot of the issues without needing to do a client patch. They have already fixed a lot. Remember the time when we had to wait for weeks (or months) for a patch to fix almost anything at all.

Like Feihcretsam, one of the things I don't like is that Blizzard made it really difficult to track 10-person and 25-person raiding progresses apart from each other. Considering they really are not equal and never will be. Hopefully they will do something about it. I'll be happy if you can just keep track of if better.

Anyway. Yea I like the expansion thus far. :)

Having experienced all of this now (excluding raid ofc, im not pugging that) i have to agree totally. Ive never if truth be known enjoyed levelling in WoW. Its always been about end content for me and character development/maximization.

For me to say i enjoyed levelling to 85 from 80 is an act of almost speechless proportions. Well done Blizzard and thanks for the good advice guys, now just to find somewhere to raid.

p.s A certain she-worgen is around and so far loving the game again since her return too (the missus)!

Leafy!

inacup
05-01-2011, 10:11 AM
Anyone know if any / what guild got the "Realm First! Working as a Team" chieve?

seems this feat has been earned on some realms now that people are starting to hit revered.

Ruoste
05-01-2011, 12:14 PM
Anyone know if any / what guild got the "Realm First! Working as a Team" chieve?

seems this feat has been earned on some realms now that people are starting to hit revered.

Wrath 16/12/2010
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/guild/shadowsong/wrath/achievement#15093

inacup
05-01-2011, 12:48 PM
Silly me, grats fellas!

Aggression
05-01-2011, 03:19 PM
blizzard is obiously on a schedule to cut raiding at all and push everything into 5 mans. They stated themselves multiple times that the efforts to develop and maintain a raiding model takes too much resources.
They just didn't dare to cut out 25s (and 10s for that matter) yet being afraid of the uproar it might give.
Maybe already this expansion, but certainly next one you'll see super-heroic mode for dungeons being introduced as the replacement for raiding.

:)

Seems like they really want ppl to do 10-mans rather than 25-mans. Talking about casual guilds, they seem to often have 10-15 more core players and about the 1.5 times more of less raiding. Progressing 25-man will probably go slower than 10-mans.
And seeing that all content (except hc ofc) is alot more cleared with 10-man grps than 25-man. Feels like the basic raiding is 10-man now and not 25-man.
If they won't cut raids to 10-mans, then they have to change something for the 25-mans. Afaik, 10 and 25-man drop just as many items/player? Same quality.
Not been raiding so just presuming from what I've read.

Bunneh
08-01-2011, 10:38 AM
I cancelled my subs, is that a realm first?

(runs out on the 23rd, just need a break, so will be back eventually)

Ruoste
06-04-2011, 01:18 AM
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9362/first25.png

inacup
06-04-2011, 02:01 AM
Grats guys!

Fnurgle
06-04-2011, 05:22 AM
Le grats.

Malchous
06-04-2011, 07:48 AM
Grats Wraf!

Talsin
06-04-2011, 09:22 AM
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9362/first25.png

grats, allthough its kind of hollow seeing unlike others who got their exp reset 4 times in the beginning of cata due to to a Blizz bugg, its kind of crap having people come out in 23 a day or more faster than others.

another blizz fail.

zoomkin
06-04-2011, 10:53 AM
grats, allthough its kind of hollow seeing unlike others who got their exp reset 4 times in the beginning of cata due to to a Blizz bugg, its kind of crap having people come out in 23 a day or more faster than others.

another blizz fail.

Just fyi you were ahead of wrath's xp / level at some point, so instead of trying to explain it through a bug just take notice of the fact you wern't getting capped everyday.

Talsin
06-04-2011, 11:43 AM
who are you again? actually fyi we werent, fact is tho that the implementation of it was flawed that is where i had my complaint, on getting it i already gave my congratulations to the members of wrath.

zoomkin
06-04-2011, 11:55 AM
There is no flaw, Wraths xp was reset numerous times on the first two days of cata, im pretty sure no guild on Shadowsong had the advantage of the guilds who hit 25 last week or it would have been more obvious.

Go check most realms to see this being acheived by numerous guilds over the past two days.

SoniqBoom
06-04-2011, 01:30 PM
There is no flaw, Wraths xp was reset numerous times on the first two days of cata, im pretty sure no guild on Shadowsong had the advantage of the guilds who hit 25 last week or it would have been more obvious.

Go check most realms to see this being acheived by numerous guilds over the past two days.

actually there was a flaw in it, I myself opened numerous tickets about it (and no im not talking about the shitty resets in the 1st few days)
there was a bug where the guild XP failed to reset/extend each day.
I had it happen 6 times or more, basically you got your daily cap but at the reset time (3am or so) it failed to extend. I actually spoke to an upper tier gm who stated it was a known bug, that if a guild gained xp at the time it was due to reset then it would bug out, it has since been fixed, but when i asked if we would get it reimbursed, he told me it was up to the devs (in otherwords no....)
Plenty of posts about it on official forums if you care to search.

but either way, big gratz to wrath, on another realm first :)

Gwynin
06-04-2011, 02:01 PM
Aye we had that happen once or twice aswell, maybe more but didnt notice it.

thurlog
07-04-2011, 11:07 AM
gratz Wrath

Turiel
08-04-2011, 03:03 PM
just take notice of the fact you wern't getting capped everyday.

We're such a big guild, its literally not even possible. We're capped at the latest by 2pm on any given day, and often by 7am.

The implementation was buggy.

Having said that, at the same time we hit 23 I noticed Wrath had 5 heroic teams running at 2am grinding the xp up (we had none), so you did work for it.

Vegelus
08-04-2011, 03:04 PM
Wrath had 5 heroic teamsLol, forgot about LCoT normal?

Ring0
08-04-2011, 04:41 PM
If only the same enthusiasm was shown for raid bosses.

Smellyskele
08-04-2011, 05:45 PM
If only the same enthusiasm was shown for raid bosses.

wait... wrath raid? wtf.. since when

Ring0
08-04-2011, 06:33 PM
http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/681/original/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg