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View Full Version : IE security bandwagon...


Goonerr
31-10-2009, 01:28 PM
Basically I'm making this post to make a point that I disagree with people calling IE trash just because they hear somebody else say it, but I'm open to constructive opposition.

IE Slow
IE Not secure
IE Crashes
IE Shit

IE Slow.
I know some, if not a lot of people say that IE is a slow ass pile of shit, I have been using the internet on a daily basis for the past 10 years, I have tried almost every browser out there and my primary browser is still IE, I don't find it any more slower than the other browsers but I have allways had a decent spec computer so I'm not sure if that's the reason why, and maybe if I had a lower spec computer I would see a difference, websites for me load pretty much instantly through IE8.

IE Not secure.
I honestly fail to see were IE is not secure, I have never been phished or attacked through using IE, not once in the 10 years i have used IE! Not even after going on to the Curse website while it had an infected advertisement.
This leads me to think that either many people visit illegal and totally un-secure websites and put themselves in a very high risk situation or they don't have any security software installed on their computers.

http://www.ghacks.net/2009/08/14/another-report-finds-internet-explorer-8-to-be-the-most-secure-web-browser/

IE Crashes.
I have had very few crashes using IE, sometimes I will get a random crash or maybe if I'm trying to load a large browser based game, but since IE8 can resume from the very last page you viewed after a crash it isn't really a problem, more time consuming than anything but that takes no longer than 10 seconds and I'll get a crash maybe once a month, sometimes not even that.

IE Shit.
Overall I don't understand why people think IE is shit, I've never understood peoples reasons behind slating it when I personally have never had a problem.
I know a lot of people who browse the net and do not use basic security measures such as firewalls and common sence, so I'll put it down to that.

Flawless
31-10-2009, 02:33 PM
I'd like to see IE as secure when you use the "must" have addons for firefox.

Alverion
31-10-2009, 03:42 PM
Opinions, opinions, lol.

Speed:
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,687738/Big-browser-comparison-test-Internet-Explorer-vs-Firefox-Opera-Safari-and-Chrome-Update-Firefox-35-Final/Practice/

Security:
Yes, IE8 has made some good steps forward, but can we find any reports that verify this that aren't bankrolled by Microsoft? I read that NSS report and worry about objectivity. The two biggest problems with that report when reading it from NSS site http://nsslabs.com/browser-security is that

a) Out of the 10s of 1000s or URLs they only included around 600 for either test (Direct quotes: "Thus, ultimately 593 unique URLs were included in our final set of phishing sites", "Of the initial 2,171 URLs, ultimately 608 URLs passed our post-validation process and are included in the final results" The 2171 bit is misleading because of this quote "From an initial list of 12,000 new suspicious sites, 2,171 potentially malicious URLs were pre-screened for inclusion in the test", they justify this in their statistical processing by the use of pruning but there is no way to verify what they pruned away as they have not disclosed their list of URLs and site data to do data comparisons this doesn't help when coupled with the below.)
b) The Malware report states that multiple URLs may be from the same site, up to 10% which means the number of actual domains that were tested could be much much lower, it sounds nice but it can lead to a lot less statistical variance, again unique URL can mean that there was only a single letter difference in the URL, we don't know this because that information hasn't been released (Direct quote: "Care was taken not to overweight any one domain to represent more than 10% of the test set")

These two points add up to a report that can very easily be tweaked one way or another, and thus can't really be called balanced. It's not a very good statistical test with only 500 actual URL tests and possibly only 50 actual domains tested. That's like killing a Red Whelp in Wetlands and getting a Crimson Whelpling on your first kill so the drop rate must 100%!

I'll wait until there is a extensive individually verified report about security (i.e. not just malware and phishing) before I give any browser the upper hand in this area, IEs track record certainly doesn't help it so I stick the browsers with a proven track record of security.

Crashes:
Can't really comment on this, every browser has crashes, every software piece. Some people will have more, others less. This will be an entirely opinion based observation and can't really be empirically stated as one way or the other without months of constant use of all browsers doing the same thing all day.

Shit:
Yes, IE is terrible, speaking as someone who regularly works with software that uses IE6,7,8 it is horrible to design around, it refuses to handle a lot of newer html techniques and code practices that are both security oriented and design oriented. The proof of this is in the speed test above where Canvas support is non-existent. IE8 is still nearly a decade behind other browsers in DOM support, it barely allows any CSS3 to work, is not fully compatible with CSS2.1 and don't even get me started on IE7 compatibility mode it is fucking awful.

Goonerr
31-10-2009, 04:18 PM
I was speaking from an end user perspective, and from my own personal opinion from using IE over the years, it's not as nearly bad as most people say, I cannot coment on the design/coding side of it as I'm not a coder but only from an end user side.

I will say though that none of the browsers are perfect, they all have their down sides, all I wanted to say is that most of the time it's over hyped about being a crap browser.

Llort
31-10-2009, 06:10 PM
Well I am a firefox (and safari on my mac) user.
But then again I am also web-developer and have top cope with all problems related to IE that are not related to any other browser.

Yes, IE is slow. I am not saying that it loads the pages slower, but the overall responsiveness is slower. Clicking a button/link, opening a new tab. It's just not *direct*.

About security, IE8 fixed quite a lot of issues, but 7 and lower were really bad. All that activex crap etc.

I can easily crash IE versions 7 and lower. With just a very simple javascript (adding content before the end of the body if page isnt fully loaded/rendered yet). So I have to say, yes it crashes :p Also seen many connection crashes/problems where you have to restart WHOLE IE8 in order to be able to connect to that website again. No such problems with other browsers.

With IE8 IE has become less shit, but it still is shit. SVG PLEASE! XHTML standards PLEASE, XML standards, please! Also javascript, let's not even start about javascript!

thurlog
31-10-2009, 08:33 PM
i've used IE since version 1.0 (windows 95 i think?).

never saw a reason to switch

Metakerk
31-10-2009, 09:53 PM
The browser is fairly ok to use from and end-user perspective I guess, but as others have pointed out, it's horror to work with from the other side, in comparison to other browsers.
It's always like. Okay, so, it works. Wait, does it work in IE? A programmer I recently worked with explained it this way..

Yes, I know, the website doesn't work in Internet Explorer 6. It
never will. Microsoft has discontinued support for this relict from the
internet stoneage, and so did I.

Yes, I know, the list of items doesn't show up properly in Internet
Explorer 7. This is because IE 7 is crap, but it will be fixed before we
go live. In IE 8 the website looks exactly as in Safari or Firefox.

Ruoste
02-11-2009, 12:01 PM
YES! From a web designer's point of view IE is completely garbage.

If you design your web stuff by HTML/CSS specs it will look identical, with minor tweaks, on all major browsers except IE. IE is a huge headache because of bugs and unimplemented (or differently/wrongly implemented) standards.
IE8 is getting little better but you still have to make sure you stuff works in IE7 (AND IE6, shudder), because a lot of people still use those old browsers... IE at least doubles the work load if you try to do anything complex.

Personally I've never used IE for internet browsing. First time back in 1995 I used Netscape and then progressed to early version of Opera because it was so damn small and fast, even though it had some issues with few sites back then. Tabbed browser windows were awesome! If I have to use IE somewhere for a bit I get annoyed quickly because it's missing some essential Opera features I can't live without.

Goonerr
02-11-2009, 04:59 PM
Thanks for the comments, I didn't realise IE was such a pain for coders/designers, that explains.

Llort
02-11-2009, 09:36 PM
It is like, *There are browsers, and there is IE*. Really,
Javascript standards?
CSS2 standards?
X(HT)ML standards?

IE shits on them, really. They have their own implementation that is for 101% not compatible with the real standards.
Ever seen all the *dirty* hacks needed to make sites work with some advanced CSS?

We've stopped supporting IE6 on our own sites, even-though 25% of the visitors still are IE6 users.

Bunneh
10-11-2009, 09:24 AM
Firefox seems to have topped yet another chart, a vulnerability chart!

http://www.internetnews.com/software/article.php/3847461

Goonerr
10-11-2009, 12:09 PM
So much for firefox being the ultimate browser for security lol

Slicer
10-11-2009, 12:18 PM
Well, as the report says it's plug-ins that they can't account for. They're not writing the plug-ins and so can't keep track of what is or is not secure. I imagine if you stripped it back to the base version of Firefox it would improve greatly.

Bunneh
10-11-2009, 12:27 PM
I use FF with Noscript, AdBlock, and some Flash blacking addon; not had any problems but that said I never had any problems when I used IE, just prefered FF because I could install a kitty icon set.

Flawless
10-11-2009, 02:33 PM
Comments are more interesting than that "report"