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View Full Version : SSE Mark 3: Raid Progression

06-07-2009, 11:03 AM
Well, this is the one that needs the biggest overhaul I think :)

Currently it works as follows:

Manually updated by guilds
Each kill grants the guild a certain amount of points, which determines ranking
10 man is tracked, but 25man overrides it.
No achievements tracked.

The things I want to achieve are specifically separate 10 man progress, and achievements.

How should we go about it?

Should we rank based on another site (eg wowprogress) ?

Should we go with manual or automatic updates (bear in mind that automatic updates will have a delay).

How do we rank the achievements (all worth the same points? harder achievements more points? how do we know which is harder?)

Should we have completely separate ladders for 10 and 25?

Anything else you want to see in raid progression?

06-07-2009, 11:39 AM
I wouldn't base it on another site. All those sites are different anyway, we should agree on a system (or rather, the admins should, I guess) that we feel is best - that might actually turn out to reflect another site anyway.

I would suggest we manually update it, and include the ability to upload proper screenshots with it.

Personally I feel that we should base the achievement points on the points you get in game. Is that fair? Probably not, as some are harder than others, but life isn't fair - deal with it, etc.

Seperate ladders would be a great addition but the 10 man ladder should be exclusive to 10 man only guilds. Anyone with more than a Flame Leviathan kill (for eg.) shouldn't be on this ladder.

Also, this isn't raid related, but how would one go about creating a shadowsong arena ladder? I'm guessing manual updating on this isn't really an option.

06-07-2009, 11:40 AM
Determining raid progress has gotten really complicated with the hard modes and all. Doing it yourself properly from scratch would be an enormous task.

If you counted just achievements, it wouldn't be fair because some easy achievements become very hard if the guild is doing the hard modes for loot etc (or not possible at all; like "I Choose You, Blahblah" council achievements).

Then the encounters are also changed and nerfed all the time thus making some achievements easier. Then again some can become harder when bugs are fixed. So if you assign points to certain achievements, they would soon be out of date. I think at least wowprogress tweaks their points all the time.

Because of this I'd say rank based on another site. Wowprogress seems fairest and guildox.com is nice since you can easily see 10-man progresses as well. But simply copying the progress from another site seems kinda redundant...

06-07-2009, 11:41 AM
Guildox would certainly be the site I'd choose if you went down that route.

Edit: In terms of reflecting how much easier it is after something gets nerfed - I would give bonus points for being in the top 5 to kill something/get an achievement. Simple 5 for being first, 1 for being fifth should be enough to reflect it, I reckon.

Ruoste is right though, it's v complicated these days. To keep it accurate and "fair" you'd probably need someone working "full time" on it.

06-07-2009, 11:48 AM
I would like mutliple moderators to accounts for updating things.

I feel it should be automatically updated from the armory if X number of folk in Y guild has Z achievement(Hard mode only tho as what Ruoste says is true)

So it should be

just 25 Man Content (Encounter) then (Hardmode) count. Part hardmodes not counting, so Yogg 3 and 2, Freya 1 and 2, FL 1 , 2 and 3 and Medium mode IC not being included.

Strict 10 man Content again Encounter, and hardmodes. If X people have killed say a noticable distance into the instance to avoid early boss pugs wiping guilds that are 10m only from the rankings onto the 25 man.

I feel that using things from sites like guildox and wowprogress are worthwhile ofc like Guildox's 10man system and wowprogresses tiering system. As it stands on SSE atm guilds that clear can show in any order afterall. It sohuld be based on date and a points tiering system of sorts ilke the Wowprogress points. However the problem is when nerfs and buffs come into play like Ruoste says.

Its a very big task and I dont hugely think its needed to be changed entirely, just tweaked and made viable to both 10 man only and 25 man guilds to bring more interest into the site for the smaller guilds on here.

18-07-2009, 04:44 AM
Can somebody explain to me, briefly, how the new raid in 3.2 is going to work in terms of 10/25/heroic/hard mode/etc ?

18-07-2009, 05:52 AM
Can somebody explain to me, briefly, how the new raid in 3.2 is going to work in terms of 10/25/heroic/hard mode/etc ?
Trial of the Crusader (Normal) = 10-man Easy
Trial of the Crusader (Heroic) = 25-man Easy
Trial of the Grand Crusader (Normal) = 10-man Hard
Trial of the Grand Crusader (Heroic) = 25-man Hard

All four instances are on separate weekly lockouts.

Grand Crusader is unlocked only after you finish Crusader (like old Magister's Terrace system).

18-07-2009, 06:06 AM
Okay so its mainly the lockouts that have changed, each boss has a 10man, 25 man, and a easy/hard version. Does every boss have a hard mode this time? And are there various levels of difficulty ? (like 1d, 2d, 3d)

19-07-2009, 06:16 AM
And does each boss an individual achievement for hard mode?

20-07-2009, 07:07 PM
Answer me damn you :P

20-07-2009, 07:13 PM
Wait, you asked about 3.2 ...so far it looks like each boss (encounter) has at least a hard mode achievement.

20-07-2009, 07:24 PM
All but Ignis, Razorscale and Kologarn? And few other (Council, Yoggie, Freya, FW) has few versions of hmodes. So it differs it seems.

31-07-2009, 03:20 PM
I need small 25man + 10man icons.

22x13 or so.


31-07-2009, 04:19 PM
The heroic mode of 25 man is hard mode. And I assume they'll have individual achievements yea. Also, grand crusader normal is open the first day (well, just hte first boss that first week). Heroic needs to be unlocked.

31-07-2009, 06:39 PM
I need small 25man + 10man icons.

22x13 or so.


use the ones for achievements?
for example: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?page=867

no clue where they got them from, some gamefile extractions?

31-07-2009, 07:00 PM
I'd like one that says "25man" and one that says "10man". Or just "10" and "25". The individual achievement icons don't really mean anything.

31-07-2009, 07:03 PM
ah lol.. thought you ment 25 new icons :)

31-07-2009, 07:39 PM


Gave it a shot :3

31-07-2009, 09:29 PM


Gave it a shot :3

K thanks but..


They're to go right beside guild name so should be the same size as this text, basically.

31-07-2009, 09:31 PM