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Ruoste
24-02-2009, 08:55 AM
So the PTR is finally up and these are the first hunter changes on it.

Talents
Beast Mastery
Improved Aspect of the Hawk now has a new spell effect.
Improved Wing Clip: This talent has been removed.

Marksmanship
Piercing Shots re-designed: Your critical Aimed, Steady and Chimera Shots cause the target to bleed for 10/20/30% of the damage dealt over 8 sec.
Ranged Weapon Specialization: Points reduced from 5 to 3, 1/3/5%.
Wild Quiver: Chance increased to 4/8/12%, up from 4/7/10%. Damage increased from 50% of an auto shot, to 80%.

Survival
Hunting Party: This talent has been reduced to 3-points, and now increases your total Agility by an additional 1/2/3%.
Lock and Load re-designed: You now have a 33/66/100% chance when you trap a target with Freezing Trap, Freezing Arrow or Frost Trap and a 2/4/6% chance when you deal periodic damage with your Immolation Trap or Black Arrow to cause your next 2 Arcane Shot or Explosive Shot spells to trigger no cooldown, cost no mana and consume no ammo. This now has a new spell effect and sound.
New Talent: Trap Launcher: When activated, your next Trap will be launched instantly at the enemy target. 1 minute cooldown.
T.N.T. re-designed: Increases the damage done by your Explosive Shot, Explosive Trap and Immolation Trap by 2/4/6%, and gives your Explosive Shot a 33/66/100% chance to refresh the duration of your Immolation Trap effect on the target.
Trap Mastery: This talent has been moved up to tier-2, up from tier-9.
Wyvern Sting duration increased from 12 sec to 30 sec. PvP duration reduced from 10 sec to 6 sec.

Pets
Roar of Sacrifice can be used on the hunter only.
Stampede (rhino) only affects 1 target, but adds a 25% bleed damage debuff (that does not stack with Mangle etc.) in addition to its knockback.

Black Arrow is still haunting there... I wonder if they are planning to give it to us soon. It's been in the game files for a while: http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=14296.

A lot of stuff happening in Survival and MM beefed up a bit. I assume BM will see more changes still.

Ruoste
24-02-2009, 08:59 AM
New talent calculator:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunter=&version=9614

Black Arrow is there as the new Survival 41 pointer (has been changed though)! God dammit, TWO new buttons to press.

Ruoste
24-02-2009, 09:41 AM
Some quick thoughts about the Survival stuff.

Black Arrow will replace Serpent Sting in rotations obviously. Though interestingly it would be possible to keep 3 different dots up on one target continuously (black arrow, serpent sting, immolation trap). It even might be worth doing so depending on where to put talent points and what glyphs to get... Have to also still see what new glyphs we get.

Explosive Shots will crit less often but will do more damage. Damage against heavy resilience targets gets buffed a bit. The refreshable (and dispellable) Immolation Trap dot will offset that for PVE damage. Explosive Shot also lost the random stun.

I called the Trap Launcher but hoped against it (more buttons to press grr). But the "guaranteed" LnL proc from it is a nice thing to have. Surv dps rotation gets slightly more complicated but also more interesting.

Ruoste
24-02-2009, 10:03 AM
More new stuff from MMO-Champion:

Beast Mastery
Skills
*New Skill* Call Stabled Pet - A pet of your choice busts out of its stable and joins you no matter where you are, replacing your current pet. Cannot be used in combat. Instant. 30 min cooldown. Requires Level 80.

Marksmanship
Skills
Kill Shot no longer has a minimum range. It can now be used in melee range.

Survival
Skills
Disengage cooldown increased to 30 secs. (Previously was 25 secs)

Talents
*New Talent* Black Arrow (Tier 9) - Fires a Black Arrow at the target, increasing all damage done by you to the target by 6% and dealing [ 10% of RAP + 785 ] Shadow damage over 15 sec. Costs 6% base mana. 5-35 yard range. Instant Cast. 30 sec cooldown.
Mmm, love the Kill Shot if it stays like that.

Kinshara
24-02-2009, 10:27 AM
Couple of necessary nerfs (slightly longer disengage cd, no rng stuns) and some nice buffs. Will be interesting to see how well trap launcher and black arrow work when I get on the PTR... (in particular, is the launcher better than freezing arrow?)

Ruoste
24-02-2009, 10:57 AM
Couple of necessary nerfs (slightly longer disengage cd, no rng stuns) and some nice buffs. Will be interesting to see how well trap launcher and black arrow work when I get on the PTR... (in particular, is the launcher better than freezing arrow?)

Launcher is better because it applies the trap to your current target. Freezing Arrow might have only some occasional tactical usage left...

I suspect the launcher will trigger global cd however, since launcher+freezing trap macro seems somewhat powerful on top of having scatter shot and wyvern sting too.

Evilstein
24-02-2009, 11:11 AM
Any word on what the spell effect on Imp. AotH might be?

Ruoste
24-02-2009, 12:16 PM
There was some datamined new hunter glyphs at EJ forums:
Glyph of Chimera Shot Reduces the cooldown of Chimera Shot by ${$63065m1/-1000} sec.
Glyph of Explosive Shot Increases the critical strike chance of Explosive Shot by $63066s1%.
Glyph of Explosive Trap The periodic damage from your Explosive Trap can now be critical strikes.
Glyph of Kill Shot Reduces the cooldown of Kill Shot by ${$63067m1/-1000} sec.
Glyph of Raptor Strike For $63087t sec. after using Raptor Strike, you take $63087s1% less damage.
Glyph of Scatter Shot Increases the range of Scatter Shot by $63069s1 yards.
Highly unofficial of course.

Other classes here: http://pastebin.com/m490ef704

Rukia
24-02-2009, 01:56 PM
God dammit, TWO new buttons to press.

Idd. I can't believe rotation has gotten more complicated, but I really like the idea of the trap launcher and these are a pretty fun bunch of changes overall. Considering Blizzard had said they were looking to reduce Survival damage, anyway.

Very glad to see RoS effect wasn't nerfed, just changed to hunter only.

Navai
24-02-2009, 02:35 PM
There was some datamined new hunter glyphs at EJ forums:

Highly unofficial of course.

Other classes here: http://pastebin.com/m490ef704

The actual numbers of these have been released now

Glyph - Aimed Shot -- Reduces the cooldown of your Aimed Shot ability by 2 sec. (Old: Reduces the mana cost of your aimed shot ability by 20%)
Glyph of the Monkey -- While Aspect of the Monkey or Aspect of the Dragonhawk are active, each time you dodge you gain 30% increased movement speed for 6 sec. Can only occur every 20 sec. This speed does not stack with other movement speed increasing effects. (Old: Glyph of Aspect of the Monkey -- While Aspect of the Monkey or Aspect of the Dragonhawk are active, each time you dodge you gain 30% increased movement speed for 6 sec. This speed does not stack with other movement speed increasing effects.)
Glyph of Wyvern Sting -- Decreases the cooldown of your Wyvern Sting by 6 sec. (Old: Decreases the cooldown of your Wyvern Sting by 15 sec., but decreases the damage it deals by 20%.)
Glyph of Snake Trap -- Snakes generated by your Snake Trap take 90% reduced damge from area of effect spells. (Old: Your Snake Trap creates 2 additional snakes)
Glyph of the Hawk -- Increases the haste bonus of the Improved Aspect of the Hawk effect by an additional 6%. (Old: Renamed from Glyph of Improved Aspect of the Hawk)
Glyph of Chimera Shot *new* -- Reduces the cooldown of Chimera Shot by 1 sec.
Glyph of Explosive Shot *new* -- Increases the critical strike chance of Explosive Shot by 4%.
Glyph of Kill Shot *new* -- Reduces the cooldown of Kill Shot by 6 sec.
Glyph of Explosive Trap *new* -- The periodic damage from your Explosive Trap can now be critical strikes.
Glyph of Scatter Shot *new* -- Increases the range of Scatter Shot by 3 yards.
Glyph of Raptor Strike *new* -- For 5 sec. after using Raptor Strike, you take 20% less damage.

If dont see anything from the Talent calcs or patch notes that hints the +6% dmg from black arrow and the serp sting noxious effect not stacking either.

As well as the tooltip for black arrow says its a 30 second cd and lasts 15 seconds, so maybe its

On pull launch Immo trap and let explo refresh it from here out

Explo > Black every 30 > Aimed every 10> Steady everywhere else whilst keeping serpent up.

Ruoste
24-02-2009, 03:10 PM
Idd. I can't believe rotation has gotten more complicated, but I really like the idea of the trap launcher and these are a pretty fun bunch of changes overall. Considering Blizzard had said they were looking to reduce Survival damage, anyway.

I like the idea of adding more complexity behind better dps. It was absurd in TBC that speccing into BM and smashing one button provided much better dps than more complex SV (granted that SV helped raid dps more with Expose Weakness).

Timothy
24-02-2009, 04:49 PM
New BM pet Talents:

Wild Hunt: Increase the contribution your pets get from your Stamina by 20%/40% and attack power by 20%/40%.

http://www.qqpewpew.com/images/31_ptr/wild_hunt.jpg

Shark Attack: Your pet does an additional 4%/8% damage with all attacks.

http://www.qqpewpew.com/images/31_ptr/shark_attack.jpg

Call Stabled Pet: A pet of your choice busts out of its stable and joins you no matter where you are, replacing your current pet. Cannot be used in combat.

http://www.qqpewpew.com/images/31_ptr/call_stabled_pet.jpg

Info nicked from http://www.qqpewpew.com/

Looking forward to the new pet talent tier skills.

Ruoste
24-02-2009, 09:19 PM
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/15211808550-survival-hunter-31-notes-vs-ptr.html
I know this is a little confusing, so I will try and clear it up.

1) Trap Launcher is a very cool idea and something we would love to do. However, it requires a lot of tech and may end up beyond the scope of what we can do for patch 3.1. We don't want to give hunters a buggy, half-baked ability. If you are going on the PTR to test Ulduar or just mess around with numbers, I wouldn't worry about this ability, at least for now.

2) Black Arrow is on the trap cooldown timer, and we assume largely for PvE. Black Arrow is your ability to proc things normally caused by traps (like LnL) in PvE situations when using a trap is a pain or the target is immune.

3) Think of Lock and Load triggering from traps (esp. Frost Trap) as a PvP mechanic. Think of Lock and Load triggering from periodic ticks (esp. Black Arrow) as a PvE mechanic. In PvE, you may want to use traps on trash or group pulls however. In PvP, nothing is stopping you from using Black Arrow if it works for you.

So yea, trap launcher seems very unlikely at this point. :( Having to rely solely on the current Black Arrow for LnL procs in pve is a nerf due to it lasting only 15 sec every 30 sec. Suddenly this patch seems less exciting.

Klüft
25-02-2009, 08:40 AM
Its feels kinda hard atm to juge weither or not the changes are a buff or nerf towrads surv. dps.

I have no idea why serpent will be replaced since it both yield more dmg /gcd then a steady and adds 10% dmg to steady when glyphed. And the +3% dmg increase by using it (with spec).

The new Immo trap/expl. shot/black arrow give me some concern though.
If ive understood it correctly expl. shot refresh duration of Immo trap which means it will theorically have 100% uptime and with proper spec together with glyph yield more dmg per tick then black arrow. So it seems perfectly obvious that we need to start fights by trapping (atleast on boss fights).

Though since Immo trap accually keeps getting refreshed, will I be able to add black arrow to the rotation after the initial 30sec trap/black arrow cd? If so I see no reason why not to use em both in rotation.

MM is obviously getting buffed by the change in piercing n wild quiver. Though piercing is still a bit of a puzzle. I figure it will work like deep wounds, and in that case it a major buff.

BM is very easy to look at. The new tier in pettree will yield 8% more pet dps and 40% higher ap from your gear.

Navai
25-02-2009, 09:02 AM
I've been playing on the PTR at the moment with a 2/15/54 build. granted glyphs will probably change a bit.
Using a cat in all tests

Immolation trap as stated above shares a cd with trap and immo is no longer refreshed by explosive shot in the slightest so its basically a standing fight stand at minimum range and immo trap(Its more dmg than black arrow in my gear) , and moving fights where SV is already weakened due to Sniper Training black arrow will yield more dps.

Regardless of this i tried both on a dummy(1 standing far away although its not a real major guage of a moving fight i could jump around if really needed..all it'd do is lower the dps though)

With Immo every 30, explosive on cd, aimed on cd, steady between keep serpent up I struggled constantly to break 2.5k (i did in the end, just) dps on the dummy..not the best guage but it's all i have with ulduar not open.

With black arrow every 30 , explo on cd,aimed yatta yatta at range I was consistently hitting 2.4k dps.

The only buffs I had were AotDH, Glyphs used were imp aoth,serpent and steady.

However, with the new BM talents spec'd 53/18(completely UNGLYPHED since our scribe isnt on the PTR yet and 50,000g for a glyph is a bit..yeah w/e) I was consistently hitting 3,000+ dps.
Using a cat.

SV build - http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunter=200000000000000000000000005000032500033330 502135301331005305101000000000000000000&glyph=000000000000&version=9614
BM build - http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunter=512002015051122431005313510000000000000000 000000000000005305221000000000000000000&glyph=000000000000&version=9614

Take the numbers with a pinch of salt ofc because it completely excludes raid buffs and the new glyphs, but it looks like as it stands SV has been majorly screwed with due to the removal of immo refreshing and black arrow sharing trap cd. Its early in the PTR though so im not gonna suddenly be a fotm band wagon jumper. SV even with the extra button(Immo for standing, Black Arrow for 'moving'/where melee range is not ideal) is still enjoyable and im certain after its tweaked a bit it will be just as viable as BM, and MM which of course is buffed a bit.

Klüft
25-02-2009, 09:27 AM
Well since expl. clearly doesent refresh Immo trap. Using it really seems like a waste since as stated share cd with black arrow.

Reason would only be that the dmg of one Immo is more then the combined dmg of black arrow and its buff on other shot. Using it will also mean u need to move which means no sniper training for a bit. So cant really see the use of it.

The fact that black arrow is able to proc LnL is major nerf to surv. dps.
The proc change will be something like 1-0.9^5 = 41% every 30 sec.
(old was atleast 1-0.88^10 = 72% every 30sec)

Which means an averange of 8.2 LnL during a 10min fight rather then 14.4.

Ruoste
25-02-2009, 10:30 AM
I couldn't test much yesterday due to my client crashing every 10 seconds.

It didn't look like the new sniper training was working yet, so that will add extra 6% damage to some shots later.

Some time ago the developers talked about wanting survivals to use traps more but looks like it won't happen yet. In fact we will use them LESS in PVE now. Bosses won't trigger frost trap anymore, and there's no reason to use immolate since it shares cd with black arrow. It appears that they replaced trap launcer with black arrow the last second so expect black arrow to be boosted somehow still. They might either buff it's damage, the bonus damage to other shots or to help provide more LnL procs.

I was reading around a bit and BM seems very strong again. The pet will have more stamina and maybe also more ap than the hunter. It's clear that BM needs a buff but I hope it won't be number one by a large margin again.

Obviously a lot is going to be tweaked still before this thing will go live.

Klüft
25-02-2009, 12:05 PM
I agree Ruoste, I really dont hope BM ends up on top again by a huge margin.

Though BM isent what it use to be and maximizing BM dps is just as hard as MM/surv so I would like it to be equal.

Rukia
25-02-2009, 01:15 PM
Well, I suppose we should've seen the BUT that came with these changes. Trying not to rage right now.


I was reading around a bit and BM seems very strong again. The pet will have more stamina and maybe also more ap than the hunter. It's clear that BM needs a buff but I hope it won't be number one by a large margin again.


Mm. And it's always going to take less effort to dps as BM so I'm not sure wtf Blizz are doing. I guess we'll see some number crunching soon enough when people have been on the PTR a bit longer, but I think it's very likely BM is going to at least contend with Surv now.

/sigh

Vegelus
25-02-2009, 06:21 PM
Well, I suppose we should've seen the BUT that came with these changes. Trying not to rage right now.



Mm. And it's always going to take less effort to dps as BM so I'm not sure wtf Blizz are doing. I guess we'll see some number crunching soon enough when people have been on the PTR a bit longer, but I think it's very likely BM is going to at least contend with Surv now.

/sigh
Hell, wished that those pet points will buff hunter somewhat, not a pet. With those new talents BM still won't be viable on many fights (Sath3D, Maly - because of p2, Thaddius).

Also - what with tenacity and cunning pets? Any leaks? Hope that they'll make tenacity tree a bit simplier.

Ruoste
26-02-2009, 09:59 AM
-Thunderstomp (Gorilla) has been removed as a pet skill and replaced by Pummel - Pummel the target, interrupting spellcasting and preventing any spell in that school from being cast for 4 sec. (20 Focus, 5 yd range, Instant, 10 sec cooldown)
-Thunderstomp is now a pet talent available to any Tenacity pet. Now your bears, crocs or ESPECIALLY CRABS can join in the AE tanking fun.
-Savage Rend (Raptor) now temporarily boost the raptor's damage by 10% for 30 seconds.
-Furious Howl (Wolf) now only affects the wolf and its master, duration increased from 10 to 20 seconds.
This will make Crocolisk instead of Gorilla the ultimate AE tank pet. Bears will be great too with Swipe and TS.

Evilstein
26-02-2009, 11:15 AM
Hell, yes!
I've thus far stubbornly refused to tame a Gorilla because of their horrible looks.

Now, I finally see the Light!
Praise Blizzard! Hallelujah!

Klüft
26-02-2009, 11:23 AM
Bm will be absolutly viable in fights like Malygos and 3D sarth. Since afaik pets do get increased dmg from sparks and in p2 you can just set it on aggressive while you begin nuking ranged targets.

And why isent BM any good at 3D sarth? It just have to move from firewalls same as everyone else.

I agree on thaddius though, but thats really the only fight so far in wolk.

Vegelus
26-02-2009, 11:57 AM
Bm will be absolutly viable in fights like Malygos and 3D sarth. Since afaik pets do get increased dmg from sparks and in p2 you can just set it on aggressive while you begin nuking ranged targets.

And why isent BM any good at 3D sarth? It just have to move from firewalls same as everyone else.

I agree on thaddius though, but thats really the only fight so far in wolk.
@Maly - after Nexus Lords are dead (and they should be killed first, shouldn't they?) BMs dmg output is halved (as pet won't be able to attack Scions).
And on Sath 3D Twilight Torment kills your pet almost instantly. Not to forget about devilsaurs (if you are one of unlucky Exotic Beast Masters) that are still hard to position between lava waves with their hitboxes.

Timothy
26-02-2009, 12:02 PM
Shit ... WTB even MORE stable slots. 8)

Navai
27-02-2009, 08:17 AM
Don't know if it was anything that magically changed or if really dropping 1 in Bloodthirsty(as SV) into the new Wild Hunt but both my pet dps double and my own went up to put SV into a line with BM. I was matching the 3-3.3~ on the dummies that I was hitting before as BM. Didnt see that Sniper Training had been implemented but might be that?

I really think that the new wild hunt and shark attack will be toned down, especially as the AP on gear will scale so well come ulduar.

Kinshara
28-02-2009, 10:21 AM
More changes, from http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=41628.0 (Ulduar spoilers at top unfortunately)


Ammunition: All types of gun and bow ammunition now stack to 1000. All quivers and ammo pouches no longer provide haste. 15% ranged haste is now built in to Hunter Autoshot.
Call Stabled Pet: This new ability lets the hunter remotely access the stable. 30 min cooldown.
Cunning, Ferocity and Tenacity pets now all have +5% damage, +5% armor and +5% health bonuses. This should make more pet families feel viable, while additional talents have been added to distinguish a pet’s abilities based on its specializations.
Disengage: Cooldown increased by 5 sec.
Pets now inherit more spell hit from the hunter. Pets with magic attacks should not require a player to stack additional hit compared to pets with physical attacks.
Viper Sting re-designed: Stings the target, draining 4% of mana over 8 sec (up to a maximum of 8% of the caster's maximum mana), and energizing the Hunter equal to 300% of the amount drained. Only one Sting per Hunter can be active on any one target.

Survival
Explosive Shot: Base damage lowered by 10%. Attack power scaling reduced by 12.5%.

Pets
Bullheaded now adds 20% damage reduction for 12 sec along with its current CC-removal effect.
Cornered: The crit reduction when this ability is active has been increased.
Feeding Frenzy increased to 8/16% damage up from 6/12%.
Furious Howl (wolf special ability) now stacks with Battle Shout and Blessing of Might, however, it only affects the wolf and hunter. Its effect and cooldown have been doubled so that it provides the same benefit but isn’t up 100% of the time.
Gorillas now have a new family ability, Pummel, which works like the warrior ability and has a single rank.
Grace of the Mantis and Roar of Sacrifice are now also available to Cunning pets.
New Talent: Shark Attack: This new two-rank talent is available to Ferocity pets. It increases pet damage.
New Talent: Silverback: This new two-rank talent is available to Tenacity pets. It heals the pet when Growl is used.
New Talent: Wild Hunt: This new two-rank talent is available to all 3 pet trees. It increases the stamina and attack power inherited from the hunter.
Roar of Recovery cooldown decreased to 3 min, down from 6 min.
Thunderstomp is no longer a gorilla-specific family ability and is now available to all Tenacity pets. It has been reduced to one rank.

Anticipated ES nerf is here.
Ammo stacks increased to 1K, since they haven't completed the stackless versions yet.
Cunning pets might actually be usable in pvp with the health shuffle and RoS; spiders have a root too, I think.
Viper Sting change is... odd.


Edit: oh, and shadow priests get a dismantle-alike ability; kinda nice. (not really hunter related, just thought it interesting)

Adharc
28-02-2009, 12:25 PM
Fuck.

Yeah.

>:3

Evilstein
02-03-2009, 06:46 AM
Hm, been playing around with the 3.1 Pet Talent Calculator.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?petcalc

It's honest to God driving me nuts. There's just too much goodies to choose from!
Just look at the Tenacity tree!

Gieb moar talent points... :(

Ruoste
03-03-2009, 09:46 AM
Anticipated ES nerf is here.
Apparently the previous live ES hotfix nerf wasn't applied to the current PTR yet and that "new" nerf is the same that we already have on live. It's a bit confusing. I hope ES won't see more nerfs because the amount of LnL procs is very low at the moment.

Ruoste
04-03-2009, 08:09 AM
New ptr patch. It has the previously mentioned stuff plus:
Wyvern Sting now has a 1.5 minute cooldown. (Up from 1 minute)
Pummel (Gorilla) cooldown has been increased to 30 sec (Up from 10 sec.) and silence effect duration lowered to 2 sec. (Down from 4 sec)

As speculated, the ES nerf is the same one that is on live now (so not a nerf to the live ES).

The new Viper Sting is a trade off with the old but I think I like it.
Assume you have 12k mana. If your target has double or more the amount of your mana, you would drain 1920 (8% of your max mana) and that would return you 5760 mana. This is absolutely fantastic manaregen against casters or bosses with manabars. The mana drain to your target is now quite pathetic however, only 1/4 of what it's on live now.

Loving the extra bag space too.

Regicide
04-03-2009, 03:48 PM
Sounds awesome for pve, but the amount of mana drained in pvp, with the resi lowering it too, must make it pretty much useless :(

Regicide
07-03-2009, 07:04 PM
Latest patchnotes posted on mmochampion yesterday:

"Beast Mastery

-Aspect of the Pack now affects the whole raid, range extended to 40 yards.
-Animal Handler now increases the duration of your Master's Call effect by 3/10 sec. (Old - Reduced cooldown by 5/10 sec)

Marksmanship

-The wording on Auto Shot has been changed to reflect the 3.1 changes: Ranged attacks fired by a Hunter all have 15% increased attack speed.
-Chimera Shot mana cost lowered from 16% of base mana to 12% of base mana.
-Rapid Recuperation now gives you 4% of your mana every 3 sec while under the effect of Rapid Fire. (Old - Reduces the mana and focus cost of all shots and abilities by you and your pet by 60%). Effect on Rapid Killing remains unchanged.

Survival

-T.N.T. now affects Black Arrow.
-Trap Mastery now affects Black Arrow."