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Sinius
13-12-2008, 10:24 AM
Since I couldn't find ANY decent topic all around the internet with numbers from damage meter
I have decided to make my own :) Math and everything is nice, but you can't count on that
due to dodge/parry/armor mitigation, own mistakes in rotations etc.

Legend:
RP - Runic Power
BR - Blood Rune
FR - Frost Rune
UR - Unholy Rune
DR - Death Rune

IT - Icy touch
PS - Plague Strike
SS - Scourge Strike
BS - Blood Strike
FS - Frost Strike
HS - Heart Strike
OB - Obliterate
HB - Howling Blast
DC - Death Coil
UB - Unholy Blight
DnD - Death and Decay
SG - Summon Gargoyle
CE - Corpse Esplosion
ERW - Empower Rune Weapon
HoW - Horn of Winter
DRW - Dancing Rune Weapon
BB - Blood Boil

GCD - Global Cooldown
RP-dump - Runic Power Dumper (ability which uses runic power)

Remember few things about these numbers:
1. No other buffs, but only unique to the build
2. I try to make boss fight at around 3min30sec and trash fight around 1min.
3. No special abilities used except IT, PS, SS, BS, DC/UB (That means no Blood Tap or ERW).
4. Not a perfect rotation! (Sometimes you just miss something.)
5. I will use same gear for all the builds! (Tho for DW I will use comparable itemlevel one-hand weapons.)

Sinius
13-12-2008, 10:25 AM
17/0/54 AKA Unholy PvE AoE DPS build
(http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMVZZfM0Ixboxcq0fsut)
I though that Night of Dead may be nice, but in those 3min30sec
boss fight I was able to make app. 50 SS/PS, so it's 2.5min down
from Raise Dead cooldown only and 5min down from Army of the Dead
Instead put points into Blood-Caked Blade which 2/3 points make 2%
of all damage done [checked before when I was speced that way].
=> http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMVZZfM0Ixroxcq0csut

Glyphs
Only one truly needed is Gyph of Scourge Strike, which renews diseases
on the target, so you don't have to use PS and IT so many times.
However glyph of ghoul and glyph of blood strike are nice. Or glyph of
plague strike (but with renewing diseases through scourge strikes
you will not use your PS so often).

Buffs
Bone Shield (2% to the damage of all attacks, abilities and spells)

Basic rotation (single target)
1st round IT -> PS -> SS -> BS -> BS
2nd round SS -> SS -> SS
3rd round SS -> SS -> BS -> BS
then again 2nd and again 3rd, etc...

Step-by-step mechanics to understand the point of this rotation:
*1st round
IT applies disease, PS applies disease, any of them applies 3rd disease. 2 GCDs (2secs)
SS does damage (3disease bonus wow!). 1 GCD (1sec)
2xBS does damage (again 3disease bonus) and turns BR into DR. 2 GCDs (2secs)
=> 1st round ended with 2DR 2FR 2UR
and idealy it took us only 5seconds! We have another 5 untill first rune will refresh itself :)
So we use RP-dump, usualy DC. That's another 1 sec. We have 4 left... thats too idealistic :)
With normal reactions and some latency you have only ~2 seconds left after first round and 1 RP-dump.
So you wait...
*2nd round
SS (using 1FR+1UR).
SS (using 1FR+1UR).
SS (using 2DR).
=> 2nd round ended with 2BR 2FR 2UR
and idealy it took us only 3seconds, but not as in the 1st round. Runes were renewing one by one as were
used. So you should be waiting for each strike like 1sec. When you will use all 3 SS you will have some time
to use RP-dump again. If you have enough RP and time use another RP-dump (you may recast HoW).
*3rd round
SS (using 1FR+1UR).
SS (using 1FR+1UR).
2xBS turns BR into DR.
=> At the end of 3rd round we have runes like at the end of 1st round.
So another RP-dump, wait and go for 2nd round again. HOWEVER =>>

=>> There is only 25% chance per Scourge Strike to renew diseases on the target.
So sooner or later you will need to recast IT and PS (SS can place diseases also,
but again - its only 25% chance and IT+PS damage is higher than SS without diseases).
Do not worry. Watch your runes and disease times and you will see when you will
need to recast IT and PS. This will count as SS in 2nd or 3rd round and it will take
2 GCDs instead of one. It may seem that this can destroy your rotation.
Well, all strikes are priority over RP-dump! You want to keep your runes on cooldown
all the time. This way you will regain lost seconds from recasting IT and PS.

=>>Just an advice at the end... dont worry if you will get few dodge/parry/miss
and you will get your rotation destroyed due to runes renewing faster than you can use them.
Keep on mind that you want to have diseases on the target all the time,
that you want to turn BR each time it's possible into DR
and meantime spamming SS and RP-dumps (RP-dumps only when all runes are on cooldown
and you don't have anything to do :)).

Numbers
(Boss - considered 83lvl ; 3x80 - 3 lvl 80s AoE)

BUILD PRESENCE GHOUL DPS
Boss
17/0/54 Unholy N/A 1183.9
17/0/54 Blood N/A 1344.8
17/0/54 Blood Ghoul 1544.4

3x80
17/0/54 Unholy N/A 1820.1
17/0/54 Blood N/A 2158.3
17/0/54 Blood Ghoul 2308.8

From these I have choosen Boss, blood presence (1344.8dps one)
and without ghoul for % of distribution of damage in skills.
http://wavy.szm.sk/17-0-54.jpg
9th is Plague Strike with 1.8% and 10th is Necrosis with 0.9%.

This is my favourite build (with Blood-Caked Blade instead of Night of The Dead).
You may distribute those two points in On a Pale Horse (However I love it)
into Blood-Caked Blade (2/3 -> 3/3) and Dirge (1/2) to maximize youd DPS.
I am against CE as PvE talent. Why? It takes one unholy rune which is better
to be used with SS even on the trash. It seems more like PvP (arena) talent to me.
As many of you may don't know yet, when CE is used on your ghoul he explodes
for a huge damage compared to normal corpse (few thousand).
You can do huge burst damage at some trash:
Have ghoul summoned, have cd for another ghoul ready. When you are at trash
use CE on the ghoul, boooom!, resummon, use CE again, booooom!.
However you can do it only once per 5mins, so I find it useless :)
So for full DPS with 17/0/54 I would go for:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMVZZfM0Ixcotcq0csut

Pros of this build:
1. Ebon Plague - 13% increased damage from magic sources
and it is 3rd disease to scale with SS and BS.
2. Really capable AoE build. When Pestilience is used Ebon Plague
spreads to all the enemies and AoE from mage/lock side is better
afterwards.
3. Desecration - slows down enemies in the area.
4. Bone Shield - possible OT for a short while.
5. Health Regen - Death Strike can be used instead of SS
and with 3diseases on the target it replenish great amount of HP.

Cons of this build:
1. Desecration - Sometimes you shouldn't slow down the mobs.
(You can avoid this by not using PS that time ^.^)
2. Tanking ability - if you have decent tanking gear you can tank,
but without Toughness and Blade Barrier talents healers will have
problem healing you most of the time :) (I am speaking bout
heroics and raid, not normal instances :-P).

Sinius
13-12-2008, 10:26 AM
52/0/19 AKA Blood PvE DPS build
(http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMqh0IsbRtzAoZfM0hxco)

Glyphs
Glyph of Obliterate - Obliterate scales better with gear.
Glyph of Rune Tap (Your Rune Tap also heals your party for 10% of their maximum health.)

Buffs
Histery (30secs)
DRW (30secs)

Basic rotation (single target)
1st round PS -> IT -> HS -> HS -> OB -> DC
2nd round PS -> IT -> HS -> HS -> HS -> HS -> DC
With AoE instead of HS goes one Pestilience and then BBoils.

Numbers
(Boss - considered 83lvl ; 3x80 - 3 lvl 80s AoE)

BUILD PRESENCE PET DPS
Boss
52/0/19 Unholy N/A 1354.3
52/0/19 Blood N/A 1250.6

3x80
52/0/19 Unholy N/A 1311.8
52/0/19 Blood N/A 1477.3

From these I have choosen Boss, unholy presence (1354.3dps one)
and without ghoul for % of distribution of damage in skills.
http://wavy.szm.sk/52-0-19.jpg
9th is Blood-Caked Strike 2.6% and 10th is Necrosis 1.8%.

Pros of this build:
1. Abomination's Might - up all the time and increasing Attack Power
of whole raid by 10%.
2. Blood Aura - healing all who are doing some damage by 2% of that damage.
3. Mark of Blood - can help to heal tank or DK. Very useful when mob does
lot of weaker attacks in a row.
4. Rune Tap - 10% HP for one blood rune is really nice. Better than potion,
because you can use it whole length of figh each minute :)

Cons of this build:
1. Very weak AoE build.
=> 2. It is inferior to other frost/unholy specs because they are doing good
on single target and really better in the terms of AoE.

Conclusion:
In case of this build, we can see that on single target (Boss) is better
to use unholy presence (need to fire DCs and execute HSs really fast)
due to many single rune or RP actions which devour time by their GCDs.
When running through trash it is possible to do two things:
a) apply diseases to all mobs and spam BB with Obliterate to finish
current target
b) apply diseases to all mobs and continue with usual rotation
on single target
Option b will propably do more damage done than option a.
Decent build, but inferior to the AoE speced ones in long run.

[hr]

I have found out that Recount is somehow messing with Necrosis. Since it should be 10% of each white strike you do
it shouldn't be 600 per few mins O.o So
When I keep only autoattacking, Recount is working fine, but when I add plenty attacks it keeps lowering
damage from Necrosis.
However it doesn't matter so much, because in both these builds necrosis is used, so it does not differ.
(If you use Unholy Presence you have 15% more necrosis due to speed and when you use Blood Presence
you have 15% more damage from each necrosis, so it doesn't matter in the end :))

Sinius
13-12-2008, 10:27 AM
17/54/0 AKA Frost PvE/PvP DPS build
(http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMVZGMxtIxdRhoVosx)

Glyphs
Glyph of Obliterate - Obliterate scales better with gear.
Glyph of Icy Touch (you can use this for any build tbh).

Buffs
Deathchill (once per trash fight, twice per boss fight)
Unbreakable Armor(once per trash fight, three times per boss fight)

Basic rotation (single target)
1st round PS -> IT -> BS -> BS -> OB -> FS
2nd round PS -> IT -> OB -> OB -> FS
With AoE instead of OB goes Howling Blast and instead of BS is Pestilience or BS again
(No BB, because it doesn't change your BR into DR).

Numbers
(Boss - considered 83lvl ; 3x80 - 3 lvl 80s AoE)

BUILD PRESENCE PET DPS
Boss
17/54/0 Unholy N/A 1243.5
17/54/0 Blood N/A 1286.9

3x80
17/54/0 Unholy N/A 1806.0
17/54/0 Blood N/A 1969.0

From these I have choosen Boss, unholy presence (1354.3dps one)
and without ghoul for % of distribution of damage in skills.
http://wavy.szm.sk/17-54-0.jpg

Pros of this build:
1. Improved Icy Talons - Increased melee attack speed by 20% is really nice
buff for whole raid.
2. Availible quick OT - Thanks to Lichborne and Unbreakable Armor.
3. Decent PvP build - you can go to PvP with this without getting much nerves :)
(Just choose different glyphs.)

Cons of this build:
1. The weakest single target dps.
2. You run out of diseases on the target pretty fast (12sec vs 18sec)
and you need to reapply them all the time. This made me feel a bit
tipsy from that I had to mash so many buttons in a short while.
3. You waste lot of Runic Power, because when there is a miss/dodge/parry
you start to run out of time and can't use FS, because you need
to use alredy cooldowned Obliterate or need to renew diseases fast.



Final Conclusion
All in all, unholy is most suitable build for PvE even if you choose On a Pale Horse
talent instead of some other. You can adapt pretty quick, you have great
dps at boss and best dps at trash. It is also most "calm" build since
you are renewing your diseases all the time (with glyph) and when needed
you just get HP with Death Strike.

If you want to have best DPS for one target fight go for Blood build.

If you want to do also PvP and have good overall dps in raids, go for Frost build.

Sinius
13-12-2008, 10:57 AM
Reserved once more time, last I promise :)

Sinius
13-12-2008, 11:04 AM
I know that many of you will think that I am crazy posting this when there will be so many changes in the patch, but I personaly think that so much will not change in DPS :)

Ashborn
13-12-2008, 05:48 PM
The blood build you used is very susceptible to broken rotas whether due to dodges/misses or not-quite-perfect play skill, and very inflexible in fights requiring movement and such. I know it's touted as the better pve dps build, but I'm fairly certain an annihilation build comes out on top in most real-world scenarios. Also, the proper version of a blood/unholy build generally has garg rather than drw, altho that suffers from garg constantly dying to aoe.

AnteroVipune
13-12-2008, 06:46 PM
Holy shit I spy an Ashen. You playing again?

Morilith
13-12-2008, 07:28 PM
Well the Unholy build you went with is simply gimped. You can't base your damage and rotations on scourge strike glyph procs, because if it doesn't proc, you'll be spamming SS on a target with no diseases up, and more importantly you've wasted 5 points in desecration. And yer, garg is quite a dps increase when you can afford to have it up, so pick that up too.
Also imo, night of the dead is a waste, in any spec.

Alverion
13-12-2008, 09:01 PM
No Dirge, no garg, no virulence, no bcb D:

Desecration loses out because there are very few fights where you are standing still for it and more than likely it's not gonna be up 100% because of rotation time anyway, outbreak isn't so great either because it's only on PS and Pest as far as your dps rotation is concerned and really who cares about being able to top meters on trash >.>

Why would you even pick up Pale Horse in a dps spec o.O

Edit: Ahh just saw your other spec hidden in the middle of all that tosh, still misses garg and only 1 point in Dirge and full up on desecration!

Sinius
13-12-2008, 09:18 PM
I see that you have read it whole from the top to the bottom, then started to write and speak about "On a Pale Horse". Or is it too long for you? Everybody can open one link,
look at the build and then criticise talents.

To the question bout Scourge Strike Glyph, rotation and Desecration.
That rotation is only "imaginable" I wrote that you will need to recast PS and IT
from time to time.

To answer The Gargoyle problem. AoE spell other than Unholy Blight seems waste to
me atm. I can't see trash fight lasting 1minute where Gargoyle would be worth more
than additional DCs. At least not on my level.

I haven't made best possible dps builds. I've used common trees and setups.
Each build has something what you may change. There are so many things about DKs
that depend on attitude of the player.

If I like to have On a Pale Horse and I am a raider and Raid Leader will tell me to respec
I will step down to non-raider tbh. Two talents don't make a miracle (especialy Dirge)
and can't boost your DPS from 1000 to 2500. If I do 2300 dps raid buffed, I will not much
care about best possible build.

The point here was to try different trees and playing styles. I didn't want to throw back blood or frost. I just wanted to prove which spec is good for what and why.
What it lacks, what is best PRO etc. The difference was significant. In all builds.
Both in AoE and direct damage.

Alverion
13-12-2008, 10:23 PM
Well aren't you the clever one, look at you coming out with the great comeback right from the offset, fantastic stuff.

Here's a hint cupcake, if you post an advice thread and then proceed to give bad advice, you are going to be called on it. Trying to then turn around and go "well, it's just my opinion man" makes you look stupid when you talk about math and so forth but fail to provide anything meaningful in that department. Which boss? Where is the WWS to show those numbers to be accurate and not padded. Can you provide any evidence at all for your assertion that Gargoyle is not worth more than DCs. Why does your screenshot not show you using UB? You aren't even clear what you expect people to do as part of their rune dumps

There are people here who care to do their research and know their stuff here so when you post to advise people you better do the same and make sure you bring the numbers and real evidence to prove it. Add to this that things change fairly significantly in the patch and maybe you should've been "advising" on how the patch will affect these various specs rather than create a thread which will be largely redundant shortly.

Sinius
13-12-2008, 11:48 PM
Here's a hint cupcake, if you post an advice thread

This isn't advice thread. Look at the Title. It says Review.

Only advice was in Build No.1 at the end, where I said that the second option is better for the dps.

To the WWS and bosses... I don't know where you live, but I can't change specs each day
for each raid to just find out numbers. That's why I made this on a stationary targets.

Why does your screenshot not show you using UB?

Do you usualy use AoE ability at single target?

You should drink less caffeine, maybe you will feel better. :)
I am sure that Hitler met somebody like you when he tried to get Artistic education. And there starts all the evil... shesh

Another thing. I see only: You didn't do that, you didn't make this, you haven't choosen right talents, etc... Is anywhere here written: "Look at my three best mega-giga-tera awesome builds and now I am going to prove this one is even more powerful!". No. I haven't been looking for the best build, because I know that with skill and right attitude you can run over a person with best build most of the time.

I will say only the last thing. This isn't anything "scientistic". This is just a common review from a common member of comunity.And I don't think it is really redundant thread, because there are few basic things that can help lot of people when they will be choosing this or that spec even if they will not go talent by talent by my builds.

Ajial
14-12-2008, 12:35 AM
Everything else aside I think your review of blood was too 1 sided. AoE doesn't matter. There are so few fights that count where having no AoE is a huge problem. In fact I think think of 2 off the top of my head (in the current raid content) being Maexxna and Anub, both of which are not really aoe dependant. Trash doesn't count reason being unless you're going for achievements then it doesn't matter.

"It is inferior to other frost/unholy specs because they are doing good
on single target and really better in the terms of AoE." You point at this multiple times and is really your entire case for blood's downside yet I can tell you that it doesn't matter. Name one time outside a timed 5 man strat heroic where it would cause a serious problem?

On that subject; AoEing as blood bloodboil is a waste, you'll need to be aoeing 5 or so targets for 1 bloodboil to outdamage a heartstrike. I generally think like this; 1-3 targets single target. 3-5 targets disease > pest > single target.. 5+ D&D > diseases > pest. Once the patch comes in i'd probably just use heart strike/oblit on anything below 5 as generally trash doesnt last as long as my diseases anyway (in 10 man at least).

I don't think your review was bad (inaccurate at times but at least you based it on your own observations rather then second hand info so you get *some* credit for that) but I don't think you considered everything that blood brings.. I mean you listed 4 pros down to 1 con (the second con is summary not a con).


Sorry this got a bit long winded. Had alot to say.

Oh lastly it's my honest opinion from reading your reviews that you are a) unholy spec normally and b) didnt give the other specs a fair try

Ajial
14-12-2008, 12:36 AM
Oh and to answer your post above, why would you NOT use UB on single target? It costs runic power which im guessing you dont use for much else....

Alverion
14-12-2008, 12:47 AM
Nice Godwin!

Fine, it's a review, but your review is terrible. It's very clear that you haven't done any kind of research, have only played the one spec, played it badly and are now showing everyone else your ignorance.

I'll help you out since you seem very unwilling to help yourself, EJ might not always be the perfect haven of information but at least they back up their information with facts and provable numbers: http://elitistjerks.com/f72/

Ashborn
14-12-2008, 02:58 AM
Holy shit I spy an Ashen. You playing again?

Yus.

Sinius
14-12-2008, 11:31 AM
Thank's Ajial, I think that your constructive criticism worked much better than Alverion's.

To Alverion: Yes, I have read Elitejerks and I made quite a research through other sites like mmo-champion forums. I wanted to try something at my own tho. On elitejers it is commonly said that Glyph of Scourge Strike isn't such good. I wanted to try it even with Desecration talents.

I think I should state that "this blood build" is inferior to "these frost and unholy builds". I can't say that another Blood Build with another rotation wouldn't be better.

I admit that these builds aren't best ones for raiding, especialy boss fights. However in a long run you have also many trash encounters and clearing trash is also important. You seem to forget also dungeons and heroics, where good AoE build with good straight DPS makes the run fast and slight.

Next time I will try unholy build:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMVZZfMhIxckgco0csut
which seems from your advices as best option for unholy dps.

However, I would like to ask you if you could come up with Blood and Frost builds
which are best for dps. I was thinking about:
Blood: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMqh0IsbRxzAoG0x0hZfM
Frost: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMVh0zZGMxxGxbRhoV0sx


What do you think?
And please be constructive.

EDIT: Blood cookie-cutter (Thanks to Ajial).

Ajial
14-12-2008, 11:38 AM
Check out my armoury... I have the cookie cutter blood dps build :)

Sinius
14-12-2008, 12:38 PM
Check out my armoury... I have the cookie cutter blood dps build :)

Many thanks :) I am sure that you do not miss anything good!

Now only good frost build :)

EDIT: I've searched the armory and most common build was Ajial's Blood. Then Unholy build I have posted in my previous post and from frost I have seen only these two:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMVh0IZG0xxIxbRhoVos
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMVh0zZG0xxIxbRhoVosx (Last talent in blood build was spent in many other ways)

And only few people had them.

Gyundor
14-12-2008, 12:55 PM
I admit that these builds aren't best ones for raiding, especialy boss fights. However in a long run you have also many trash encounters and clearing trash is also important. You seem to forget also dungeons and heroics, where good AoE build with good straight DPS makes the run fast and slight.


Trashdps is NOT important, Heroics AOEdps is NOT important. (Heck is anything important in Heroics at this point in WLK?) Bossdps = IMPORTANT. You're prob gonna QQ over me not being constructive but the points allready have been made.

"Ahw guys shame we had that 15% wipe there but hey did you see my amazing trashdps earlier?"

Arthran
14-12-2008, 01:01 PM
if your single target bopss dps is high enough, trash doesnt matter. if you can aoe trash fast but do lower damage on the boss than you could be doing, you need to be replaced in the raid. Simple as that

Sinius
14-12-2008, 01:07 PM
if your single target bopss dps is high enough, trash doesnt matter. if you can aoe trash fast but do lower damage on the boss than you could be doing, you need to be replaced in the raid. Simple as that

This way there should be only one spec per each class. I disagree then. (quote: "could be doing" ; if you mean: "should be doing" that's another thing)

EDIT: Sorry, missed your post Gyundor :)

I think that I will not avoid the Raid Boss disease here :) I wasn't really into making best dps builds, as I stated before, nor best for raid even. However it seems that I will need to do so to show people that I am not so useless, regarding this thread which most of you took as Best Raid DPS builds.

And when points have been made alredy, where's the point of your post. If you take this as QQ I don't care really much. I know that internet is a freedom of a word and you can basicly (with some rules ofc) write anything here, but what's the point to just throw more dung onto my head? Does it make you to feel happy? :-/ I know that with more words I will just lure more of those sentences, which I really doesn't like to read, so I cut it here.

imigrid
14-12-2008, 03:43 PM
Nicely done sinius, interesting to read.

After reading through your blood dps post, i found that the rotation itself is more or less the same as mine.

Mine is
IT>PS>OB>HS>HS>DC
IT>PS>HS>HS>HS>HS>DC

As far as spec go, i prefer this one : http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVrVh0IcbRxzAoG0xxG

I didnt spec rune tap, mark of blood or vampiric blood, simply beacuse they cost a blood rune to use.
More suited for PvP if you ask me.

I specced scent of blood, beacuse i felt it was a more useful filler. The other ones are either self healing or tanking talents. So i went with a tankin talent that isnt messing up my dps rotation.

The points i have in frost gives me

-Black ice gives 30% frost damage, combined with Imp icy touch and Glacier rot, and icy touch has a 70% damage increase.

-Annahilation: 3% higher crit chance for meele specials, and i get to use OB witouth it removing diseases.

-Icy talons: I attack 20% faster for 20 seconds after casting icy touch. (up 100% of the time)

-Runic power mastery 2/3: room for 20 more runic power.
With my current spec and rotation, i find it useful to spec for more runic power cap, since it often gets up to 120.


Didnt spec epidemic, beacuse my diseases very rarely runs out before i get to recast them.
The only time that can happen, is when im in the second rotation, and have to dumb alot of RP to dry out on it. Usually i stop casting DC and start the first rotation over again when this happens.
Gives me more RP to dumb later on.

With full blues and 5 epics, im sitting on around 2.4k dps with this spec right now.
But i guess all this is personal taste :P

Morilith
14-12-2008, 04:49 PM
To the question bout Scourge Strike Glyph, rotation and Desecration.
That rotation is only "imaginable" I wrote that you will need to recast PS and IT
from time to time.

It wasn't a question, it was a statement. You don't recast PS and IT "from time to time", because this in theory means that if you were to get constant glyph procs, you'd end up doing the rotation you posted, spamming SS. This would render your desecration completely useless, as the damn thing needs to be refreshed constantly just like fever/plague for the bonus damage to take effect.

Which furthermore means that the glyph isn't the best.

To answer The Gargoyle problem. AoE spell other than Unholy Blight seems waste to
me atm. I can't see trash fight lasting 1minute where Gargoyle would be worth more
than additional DCs. At least not on my level.

What does Gargoyle have to do with AoE? Am I missing something very obvious? You don't pop the damn thing on trash, you pop it on bosses, it's the best single target dps boost you have, not taking it would be... well, ignorant.

Sinius
14-12-2008, 05:33 PM
It wasn't a question, it was a statement.

From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/question

question = problem, issue, point of discussion, etc...

Other things you said are pretty objective and right. I've misunderstood the Gargoyle
spell and I want to apoligize for that.

Also when I will go for Glyph of Scourge Strike, I will leave out desecration as posted last time.

Morilith
14-12-2008, 08:18 PM
From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/question

question = problem, issue, point of discussion, etc...

Sorry for assuming you weren't illiterate for a minute.

To the question bout Scourge Strike Glyph, rotation and Desecration.

Now, if you were to treat this as a "point of discussion" rather than a request for information, then you would have typed "the question of" ...which you didn't.

Sinius
14-12-2008, 09:12 PM
Ok ok, but we finaly understand each other, isn't it wonderful :D

Morilith
14-12-2008, 09:38 PM
Ok ok, but we finaly understand each other, isn't it wonderful :D

Yus, amazing!

Sinius
15-12-2008, 10:13 PM
From more time spent in front of monitor on a boss dummy I've realized:

Unholy Blight:
~3100 damage per 60 runic power
=> 155 dps

DC:
~1660 per 40 runic power (2490 per 60 runic power)

So indeed, it is better to keep on UB all the time and meanwhile using DCs. UB will be boosted in patch, so it will take only 40 RP to use.

Now gargoyle.
32756 in one minute by 24 shots (1365 is average)
=> 545 dps boost (for one minute)

I have found out that it's really important to stop doing any RP-dump during keeping Gargoyle up.

Managed 1768dps on boss dummie during 5mins unbuffed (as long as Bone Shield was holding up), with:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jfVMVZZfMhIxckgco0csut.

However Glyph of Scourge Strike was throwing me out of rotation all the time, because I had to renew diseases at rotation unfrendly times.

Thanks for your advices :) More will come after patch with detailed info about this and also blood build.

Alakhai
16-12-2008, 03:46 AM
Yus.

dayum, haven't seen you around in ages. 'sup?

Ashborn
16-12-2008, 01:27 PM
Zomg an Alak!

Gruze
18-12-2008, 12:45 PM
Ashen get out of my base.

Ashborn
18-12-2008, 01:05 PM
No. I'm killing ur mans.

Gruze
18-12-2008, 02:43 PM
Fckre.