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Cheiftan
10-12-2008, 09:25 AM
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/12/09/the-great-hunter-nerf-of-2008/

riiiiiiiight.

here is blue:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=13275172587&sid=1&pageNo=1

to think about those points in order:

1. Steady shot. Interesting. Nerfing a classes main dps output is no laughing matter, we'll see what this does. I don't think it's as bad as some are making out, but....why? survival dps will now be even more lol.
2. Volley - understandable, if sad. Hunters went from having barely noticeable aoe to having perhaps the strongest in the game. altho as someone else pointed out i hope they've fixed the bug that makes our bows/guns break.
3. Readiness. Never specced into it, now i never will. totally ruins most of the use it once had.
4. Deterrence - i haven't pvp'd or been into an arena for a while. it was too shit. will this make it worthwhile? doubt it.
5. Kill shot - Why? i didn't have a problem with the cooldown particularly, but heh, thanks.
6. Hmm, that's a kick in the crotch, but i suppose it's understandable again.
7. another pet nerf....could this be going too far?
8. ok.
9. growl - thanks for that.
10. COTW - let's wait and see on this.
11. Rake - yes, another pet nerf. too much now.
12. a buff for a pet no one has - there is irony here jim, but not as we know it.
13. aspect of the wild - fucking who cares.

all in all...a big nerf, particularly to pets. fine, i suppose, they were doing mad damage. but all of them together...it's a bit much. and i don't get the steady shot nerf.

Navai
10-12-2008, 09:36 AM
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/12/09/the-great-hunter-nerf-of-2008/

riiiiiiiight.

here is blue:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=13275172587&sid=1&pageNo=1

to think about those points in order:

1. Steady shot. Interesting. Nerfing a classes main dps output is no laughing matter, we'll see what this does. I don't think it's as bad as some are making out, but....why? survival dps will now be even more lol.
2. Volley - understandable, if sad. Hunters went from having barely noticeable aoe to having perhaps the strongest in the game. altho as someone else pointed out i hope they've fixed the bug that makes our bows/guns break.
3. Readiness. Never specced into it, now i never will. totally ruins most of the use it once had.
4. Deterrence - i haven't pvp'd or been into an arena for a while. it was too shit. will this make it worthwhile? doubt it.
5. Kill shot - Why? i didn't have a problem with the cooldown particularly, but heh, thanks.
6. Hmm, that's a kick in the crotch, but i suppose it's understandable again.
7. another pet nerf....could this be going too far?
8. ok.
9. growl - thanks for that.
10. COTW - let's wait and see on this.
11. Rake - yes, another pet nerf. too much now.
12. a buff for a pet no one has - there is irony here jim, but not as we know it.
13. aspect of the wild - fucking who cares.

all in all...a big nerf, particularly to pets. fine, i suppose, they were doing mad damage. but all of them together...it's a bit much. and i don't get the steady shot nerf.

Just means 51/15/5 , slap out a 'boom boom boom' dinosaur, hack off all your raid members with the loud pet and probably still do decent damage due to the 5% constant damage for tracking something. The pet haste and damage is a bit of a blow for sure, and yeah nerfing our main source of damage but the way steady shot and AP values were going i've gotta admit the BM hunter could well have scaled out of proportion.

Basically they are kicking us from one cookie cutter 50/21 build into another so we are forced to accept their silly exotic pets. And as you said Steady Shot nerf will definetaly affect the other 2 specs as well when it wasnt needed. BM was strong, now its just competitive, with a loud ass pet.

And i'm definetaly not saying no to 15 second 13k crits with the new imp tracking even higher.

Aspect of the Wild buff is serious business!

And hopefully this upcoming "exciting change to ammo" might do something in return to the steady shot nerf that'll make us scale equally with Mages,Rogues and Warlocks.

Generally i'm not overly worried about it like most of the up-in-arms demanding fixes or thier rerolling DK people, we'll still be competitive on DPS(as BM, and probably Marks) at least. I'd like to see them do something in SV to Explo shot / LnL proccing off periodic more to bring SV up and into line too.

edit : Deterrence might also have some fairly decent survivability uses in pve. All spell and melee effects nullified for 5 seconds. Okay you cant attack but for example on Naj'entus in TBC you know the throw is coming, pop Deterrence and take 0 damage from the Burst (you cant attack anyway so no dps is lost at all)

Cheiftan
10-12-2008, 09:48 AM
the problem with BM, as someone wisely pointed out in that thread, is that our damage modifiers were all % based. this made scaling INSANE. they haven't fixed this, they've just nerfed it. but yes, the cookie cutter build will change. personally i would go 51/13/7 and grab the 4% increased steady shot crit chance. shouldn't be a problem once hit cap is reachable without talents. which is pretty close to what i had already.

RIP cats, though.

soulshift
10-12-2008, 10:29 AM
The aspect of the wild thing is kinda awesome though. :o

Vegelus
10-12-2008, 11:12 AM
Navai - you don't want to use devilsaur. And reason is his fucked hitbox, which grows even bigger with his special's stacks. Just try to move him out of aoe or anything else - like lava on Onyx Guardian or gettin him behind ice blocks on Sapph - not possible.

I'm concerned mostly about one nerf - Steady one. 10% might be simply too much, probably lowering base damage or making it, I don't know - 15%AP, might be better if all other nerfs are coming in the way they were presented.

Kindred Spirit nerf isn't ok as this talent should be completely changed... again. Unleashed Fury from T3 with added running speed in T10? Oh my, that's a brilliant talent (from idea's point of view, not dps).

I don't know what to say about Readiness nerf, as it's problem with encounter's desing, not talent. Patchwerk simply loves that build, like any other short dps race. On longer fights build with Imp. Tracking (and Survival Insticts) was always a clear winner, even with exotics included.

Ruoste
10-12-2008, 01:19 PM
The ammo thing was hinted about a while back. My guess is that it will probably be an item for our ammo slot and we don't have to use ammo bags or quivers anymore. I.E. more inventory space. The item might have durability and a buff for attack speed. They could also easily add some other interesting buffs or effects to different ones.

Volley nerf is somewhat concerning if they don't look into ALL other classes area damage. I'm seeing a well geared Warlock or Death Knight in some cases killing my Volley dps (which IS way too good right now). Maybe nerf Volley Damage and again allow auto shooting during it...

Hopefully Explosive Shot gets a buff or survival spec will be in even worse situation than it is now (I know they are looking into it).

Rukia
10-12-2008, 01:32 PM
Most of the changes are fine; we knew a volley nerf would be coming and BM dps is pretty insane so no surprises there. But the proposed steady shot changes are just absolutely ridiculous. I find it pretty funny that they're only 'possibly' implementing a buff to explosive shot when they've already admitted survival dps is subpar, and nerfing steady will clearly make this even more of an issue. And also what Ruo said - volley is certainly not the only aoe that needs sorting out. I'm happy that I won't be forced to spam volley and nothing else on packs anymore, but DK aoe is certainly not balanced atm either.

As for pvp...*facepalm*

How can they insist we just need to have a little bit of faith in them to make us viable when we've been waiting for so long? And with these changes, it's going to be an even harder task to do. Pve and pvp balancing may be two separate things but they're making their lives even harder.

Navai
10-12-2008, 04:35 PM
" ice blocks on Sapph - not possible." Err.. I totally just leave my cat with mend pet on Sapph.. Never killed him yet.. Dunno why its killing Devilsaurs, maybe as you said the size of it.

Cheiftan
10-12-2008, 04:46 PM
my cat rarely gets behind the ice blocks and hasn't died from that yet either.

Vegelus
10-12-2008, 04:59 PM
I was thinking more about lava on Onyx Guardian, killed mine few times when being lazy, and from what I've read devilsaurs have a big problem with surviving it (as finding save spot). As for Sapph - you're probably right - I've always had mine near me, behind ice block, so can't say anything about others' pets dying there.

Slicer
10-12-2008, 05:35 PM
http://www.ShadowsongEurope.com/forum/imagehosting/18186493ffcf4be136.jpg

Trolling is a good practise!

Finbar
10-12-2008, 05:54 PM
...to the ground, baby!

Hunters, harden the fuck up!

Kataoko
11-12-2008, 09:45 AM
Hm well, dont think it will all be to bad really.

Steady nerf, there should be a PTR To test stuff as this out, and i think its hard to speak about it how big of a nerf it will be once it reaches the live realm.

Volley nerf, well who didnt see that comming? (Sure some classes have an ever better aoe but seeing what ours was before ;D)

Readiness no longer effecting BW, Since most of the fights didnt last very long, the burst off 50/21/0 was pretty mad and their just balancing this out (QQ :()

Cat and scorpid nerf is just balancing out aswell, having cats doing more dps then exotic is just wrong.

But its not all bad!

Hey gusy we getting a new deterance!!! And new tracking huzay and even kill shot on a shorter cooldown.

And lets not forget the aspact of the wild buff :D:D

Regicide
11-12-2008, 11:34 PM
I agree with a lot of the changes they made to try and make the BM spec less OP, volley for example was sometimes even better than lock AoE spells etc, and your pets could manage to do more dps than you sometimes.

What I don't like is how rather than change the BM pve dps, they decide to f*ck up all hunters with the steady shot nerf - survival hunters have had it bad enough so far; they said they're bringing a buff to explosive shot but I can't imagine it being a significant one.

I don't think I actually read anything about exotic pets getting buffed altogether, only that Loque'nahak pet which has shite dps anyway - instead they decide to lower normal cat and scorpid dps for that. Rather than removing the BW from readiness, surely if they made the exotic talent worthwhile we'd be persuaded to take it? buffing exotic pets would solve both the normal pets doing more damage and the readiness spec 'issue' they seem to have.

And as for pvp, they really want to sh*t all over our burst damage now, lowering steady shot damage really isn't going to help us compete against mages doing 4k arcane blasts at us, or ret paladins killing you in 3 secs. The new deterrence change? it's a good idea - in other words meaning we won't get it; I really can't imagine this proposed deterrence change will be brought to the live realms, they'll either increase the cd to something like 5 mins, or they'll remove the reflect aspect from it. Like with instant scare beast, other classes will simply complain to blizz how this move is so OP.

But back to the point I'm pissed off about - why does GC have to bring in the whole pack of nerfs in one whole patch, like some American poster said, why not steadily bring in the nerfs in 3 phases, to see if all these nerfs are actually necessary; e.g 'phase 1' lower pet damage, lower kill shot cd, lower volley damage; followed by phase 2 if that doesn't work (remove BW from readiness etc), and then try phase 3 (lowering steady to scale with AP by only 15%, down from 20).

Simply nerfing hunters (not just BM) below sea level in a single patch is pretty ridiculous, when the only changes that may need altering are volley and pet damage, along with a few other bits n' bobs. The steady shot change is just pathetic though, nerfing the primary spell of a class isn't going to lower the dps of just one tree, 15% may have been at least a little more acceptable.

And the only reason they introduced insignificant changes such as lowering the killshot cooldown or improving threat on growl was to try and not make us notice the blaitant changes that make no sense at all. Overall, most of the changes are justified, e.g volley dmg lowered by 30%, pet damage lowered etc, but steady shot? Come on GC, not every hunter is a BM remember.

Vegelus
12-12-2008, 08:46 AM
Deterrance won't reflect, only deflect (negate) incoming damage. With "works only in front of you" it'might be quite shitty if it does not deflect stuns - detarrance->stunned->attacked from behind.

Klüft
12-12-2008, 09:59 AM
Well Im all in all kinda happy about the changes/nerfs. We were very much a head of any other class in DD. And im not taking about the missleading 2min patchwerk kills where Bl had a huge%, im taking about in general.

Been doing some calculation on what the accual nerf will be like instead of just stating that a 0.1ap change in steady scaling will affect us and;

Steady nerf (0.1ap instead of 0.2ap) ->[assuming 5.5k AP] = 550 per shot.
You use (as BM)either 9 every 15secs or 12 every 18sec so ->
330 dps or 366 dps (if the crit =0)
Accual dps loss (assuming 30% crit) = 2.3*0.3*366(imp serpent) + 0.7*366 = 505 dps (this is a ballparknumber sort of, but it gives you some understanding)

Using the same very appr. calc for MM yield something like 400 dps.

Though both specs recieve buffs in form of higher serpent dmg (imp tracking) and no more waste of gcd, e.g; No more gcd also yields; for example 2 rapid gcd +readiness gcd every 3min -> 3 more steady shots every 3mins -> lets say an averega steady =3k -> 9k more every 180sec
-> 50 more dps.

Think blizz accually made a touchdown nerf, which will bring us back in line with the other dps classes.

Ruoste
12-12-2008, 10:09 AM
About Deterrence: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/13392250901-gc-developer-thinking-on-new-deterrence.html
One of the biggest reasons we wanted to change the spell in this way, though I understand it may not mean much to some of you, was to get a great visual in there of the hunter just parrying stuff right and left. It can look cool and it can be a visible indicator of what the hunter is doing rather than asking people to pay even more attention to tiny buff icons. It is hard to overestimate how much good art can help an ability feel cool.
So they made deterrence to have 100% parry so it would have a cool animation with hunter parrying a lot. And since you can parry only in front of you they added the same limit to the magic damage avoidance. Certain logic behind it but hopefully the limit will be lifted.

Navai
13-12-2008, 03:37 PM
Depending on how severe the Rake nerf will be i'm considering a 50/14/7 build, I have the crit to support only 1 in GftT already.

I'm not overly fond of the exotics, and all the extra 4 points give is additional survivability (and the only fight thats needed on sometimes is Onyx Guardian when the pet spacks out and runs into a lava wave). I keep my pet on Heigan 25 and keep it up with Mend pet(and 1 renew makes it even easier) but i've seen people on MMO whining that pets on Heigan are impossible to keep alive.

The only thing that will make me change is if the Rake nerf is so severe it purposely pushes them below exotics in damage.. which i wouldnt put past Blizzard doing at this time.

Ruoste
15-12-2008, 08:41 AM
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/13392162439-mortal-shot-and-explosive-shot-buffs.html
One of the concerns with nerfing Steady Shot was hurting the dps potential for Survival hunters. One of the opportunities with the nerf was to make other shots more attractive so that hunter dps wouldn't be so much about auto + steady.

Here are two changes we are going to try on the PTR.

Explosive Shot -- damage increased substantially (e.g. from 260 to 520 base at rank 4), and additional scaling added to compensate. No longer deals AE damage to other targets.

Arcane Shot -- mana cost lowered to the cost of Steady Shot.

Nice buff but slightly sad to lose even more AE damage. I hope they also make ES dot to stack...

Ruoste
19-12-2008, 10:57 AM
On latest PTR Explosive shot was changed to RAP * 0,18 + 476 (from RAP * 0,08 + 201). It also does no AOE damage anymore (not very explosive).

Steady Shot lost 10 percentage points of scaling and ES gained 10 points plus more to the bonus. Looks like somewhat of an survival damage boost. With this change ES damage will more than double.

Before and after with 4000 RAP
521 per tick, 1563 total =>
1196 per tick, 3588 total (229,6%)

Before and after with 6000 RAP
681 per tick, 2043 total =>
1556 per tick, 4668 total (228,5%) All ticks critting with mortal shots would do 10,7k damage, and that's FIRE damage baby.

I have a feeling it might get nerfed a bit... They love to play around with ES on test servers.

Evilstein
29-01-2009, 11:20 AM
Wooooo!
Apparently, there is life after 3.0.8 even for BM-hunters...

http://www.bigredkitty.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/gc_blessing.jpg

Vegelus
29-01-2009, 12:07 PM
Will be nice. Even more if they do something with devilsaur's noise and hit box.

BTW - any of BMs noticed bug with Glyph of Mend Pet? It doesn't work while specced 1/2 into Imp. Mend Pet (can't say anything about 2/2) but raises happiness while not specced into 2/2 Imp. Mend Pet.

Cheiftan
29-01-2009, 12:33 PM
who knows, i specced survival!

and glad i did actually, BM isn't the most interesting of specs. I'm enjoying having more buttons to push, and not relying on a pet to make me look good.

Vegelus
29-01-2009, 01:04 PM
who knows, i specced survival!

and glad i did actually, BM isn't the most interesting of specs. I'm enjoying having more buttons to push, and not relying on a pet to make me look good.

Tbh it's not that different from MM - MM might have one more button to use (Aimed) and that's all.

Ruoste
29-01-2009, 01:29 PM
So many survivals around now. I think I got hit by explosive shot first time ever in WG the other day.

3.1 sounds like it will shake things up again. We already know there will be something major happening with the ammo. Survival will be nerfed again of course. Hoping to finally see a new 41 pt survival talent though.

Evilstein
29-01-2009, 01:54 PM
I hope they skip the Exotic Pet-crap and give BM the proper 51 pt talent I've always wanted:

DUAL PETS, fo shizzle!

Okay, maybe not until the next expansion...

Rukia
29-01-2009, 02:14 PM
They only agreed they over-nerfed BM on the 27th? Jesus. The only thing a big red pet does in pvp right now is show its owner is a complete and utter tool. BM just isn't an option at the moment, and while I prefer survival we've gone back to the problem of having a dead tree. Maybe it's too much to hope that all trees will be balanced and viable at some point :p

Regicide
29-01-2009, 05:45 PM
It's just annoying how they have to find this out after releasing the patch and getting complaints from every BM hunter about how they killed the spec, when they didn't take notice of the complaints from people in PTR and suggestions made by some people in the US forums; they really think they're the only ones who know the game, don't they? :)

Anyway, I sense an explosive shot nerf coming. There'll be people moaning about it in pvp, so they'll nerf it disregarding the significance of that shot's dps for survival raiding.

Hopefully, they'll manage to balance all specs, though I still doubt that'll ever happen successfully.

Must admit though, I am enjoying survival quite a lot more than I was with BM, just since a lot of dps is focused on you and not your pet, aggro is a lot higher; which can be deathly in a PuG heroic.

Klüft
30-01-2009, 08:31 AM
Accually BM isent that low. Just like MM you cant rely on steady for dmg anymore. Both aimed and arcane needs to be added to the rotation (works mana-wise with JoW).
Also BMs have the hardest time finding decent gear since both armor pen and haste are extremly over-budget item-lvl-wise.

Dont really think any shots will be nerfed in 3.1. Think blizz will finally address the real issue behind hunters dps, i.e buff scaling. Atm hunters dps are so dependent on buffs its insane. Hunters are the only class that accually benefits from 4/5 of the basic stats (surv.), which means buffs like kings, AI, PoF have a great impact on dps aswell as the obvious physical buffs.
Also blizz have to fix the double tipping buff issue our pets have.

Atm "fixing" our high 25man dps by nerfing shots will completly screw us over 10man n 5man.

Ruoste
04-02-2009, 10:05 PM
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/14910001375-hunters-why-the-stealth-nerf.html
We made a hotfix recently to lower the coefficient of Explosive Shot. Sorry we didn't get a chance to announce the change ahead of time. We don't typically do patch notes for hotfixes so we don't have a system in place to always broadcast these before they happen.

Bummer. I wasn't expecting this before 3.1.

I haven't been able to check my exact numbers yet but I was still doing well on Sartharion and Archavon today. Not sure but it looks like the nerf has not hit EU yet... Losing 300 per tick would hurt dps quite a lot.

Ruoste
04-02-2009, 10:35 PM
Very quick test against target dummies.
Without any buffs my ES tooltip says 1242-1330 damage. My actual noncritting ticks do around 100-150 damage less than that (not once went over 1242). I'd say around 10%:ish nerf to ES damage.

A good survival hunter can still do competetive pve damage against a single target but clearly some other class/spec comboes need nerfs as well.

Cheiftan
05-02-2009, 11:03 AM
cunts.

what is their problem, honestly.

Regicide
05-02-2009, 11:37 PM
Knew it was coming, blizz never made any sense anyway. "Hunters are still doing good (not OP, good) dps, we must nerf it".

Fucking ridiculous, I've seen more justice in 1950 southern America than this bollocks. Survival hunters can still do ok dps, but expect a large drop in numbers now. You see, the thing with blizzard is, they put all of survival's dps into one shot, rather than split it into several. So what they've done by nerfing ES is shit all over our dps once more, because they forgot that buffing steady shot and nerfing explosive shot would still put us at an equal'ish level, but still mean ES isn't a huge raper in pvp.

They're promising new changes in 3.1, that's meant to come around April apprently; I don't want to have to sit through months of utter bullshit from blizz and their logic that a pure dps class must not produce good dps, and they must fall below hybrid classes.

We were alright in survival after the big nerf, we still had a chance, and we were beatable in dps - yet blizzard still thinks we deserve a nerf for whatever reason? Then GC thinks he'll bribe his way out of it by introducing some goddamn melee moves into the class in 3.1 .

Said it before and I'll say it again; listen to what the hunter community suggests.

Evilstein
06-02-2009, 06:39 AM
Hm, more changes incoming.
I think, correct me if I'm wrong here, I can sense a little bit of guilty concious from Blizzards part here.

http://www.bigredkitty.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/hunter31.png

Could it be? Is BM back in business? Are they actually gonna compensate the ES nerf?

Stay tuned for more action on HunterNEWS.com

Ruoste
06-02-2009, 09:58 AM
Called the ammo change a long time ago. Getting an extra bag will be sweeet.

Since mages and locks are getting replenishment too the Hunting Party desperately needed a buff. Could be additional constant mana regen to the hunter or shots costing even less mana.

The "additional trap functionality" is almost definitely going to include beefier 41 pt talent. I'm betting it's something that makes sv hunters use traps more in our dps rotations and it's NOT going to be more of what the "trap dancing" now is. Maybe allow more traps to be shot to range? Though I can't see them forcing us to press even MORE buttons.

New Piercing Shots sounds like a nice unremovable dot to put on rogues. Might also boost MM pve damage nicely when you remember that Mangle and Trauma add 30% to bleed damage.

New Sniper Training will be a buff to some fights and a nerf to others. But I like this new version more (provided it also keeps the extra +15% sniper shot crits) since we don't have to worry about going out of range of different aura buffs anymore. Could also end up being a big source on annoyment.

Now waiting for new glyphs.

Klüft
06-02-2009, 12:24 PM
Changes looks nice indd.

Not really sure that I like the new sniper talents, since it favors none movement.
The piercing shot change looks very cool, though im uncertain what it means=)
The 10/20/30% bleed affect, is it % of the cshot causing the bleed? If thats the case a chimara bleed would cause much more dmg then a aimed bleed. Also if this is all true, does the diffrent bleeds stack or are they refreshed?

I really hope also that the increase of pet-tiers will make the BM-51 talent as usefull as Expl. is for surv. and chimara is for MM.

Ruoste
06-02-2009, 01:20 PM
The piercing shot change looks very cool, though im uncertain what it means=)
The 10/20/30% bleed affect, is it % of the cshot causing the bleed? If thats the case a chimara bleed would cause much more dmg then a aimed bleed. Also if this is all true, does the diffrent bleeds stack or are they refreshed?

It could be one debuff where a weaker shot can't overwrite a debuff caused by a stronger shot. Kind of like you can't overwrite your own serpent sting now if you have cast the previous one with more buffs on you. Down side would be that the bleed won't be able to stay up 100% of the time. Having up more than one bleed at the same time from one hunter is not going to happen.
It will be tweaked a lot before we see it on live (and then hotfixed!).

I guess it's going to be one way for them to tune MM dps interestingly without touching other trees or chimera shot (buffing just explosive shot kind of backfired).

Vegelus
06-02-2009, 02:19 PM
So we will see more debuffs on mobs. Thankfully Blizzard removed debuff slots' cap (tho it still shows max 40 of them).
As for adding new tier of pet talents - while for ferocity might be needed, for tenacity it will be even worse - even now you can't get all talents that would really help them.

Regicide
06-02-2009, 05:44 PM
Additional trap functionality sounds interesting, maybe they'll make a freezing arrow, immolation arrow etc (arrows for all, or most, traps - making trap dancing a little easier and safer). Sniper training, will be good on static boss fights - though there's quite a lot of moving in most boss fights now, and standing still for 6 secs could seem like quite a lot to ask for. Has its advantages and disadvantages anyway, I personally wouldn't see it as a nerf or a buff.

Piercing shots seems a little better than ignoring 6% armour. Hopefully BM will be on paar with survival and MM dps too, would be fantastic seeing 3 balanced dps trees finally.

Klüft
09-02-2009, 09:47 AM
Basically if the piercing shot is what it sounds like. Its not alittle better then the old version, its a "must" have talent.
Seeing Chimara shot yields about 25% of total dmg for MM hunter a 30% debuff during 8/10 of the time would yield 0.25*0.3*(8/10) = 6% which is insane for 3 talent points. Also you will have a lesser debuff the remianing 2 secs. If its aimed that will yield ( aimed stand for around 8% dmg for a MM) -> 0.08*0.3*(2/10) = 0.5%.

So total amount of +% dmg will be somewhere around 6.5%.

I realize this is far from exact math but its in the same ballpark atleast. And will make the best base-line talent in game.

Kinshara
09-02-2009, 06:03 PM
I'm guessing it'll only be on crits from those shots, not every shot. Would be a little too good otherwise, imo... but it might stack that way.

*Waits for more details from blues/ptr testing*

Ruoste
10-02-2009, 11:47 PM
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/14990912861-hunter-ammo-changes.html
In our 3.1.0 class updates post, we had announced plans to remove consumable ammunition from the game upon the release of the next major content patch. Our original plans were to change ammunition so that hunters would no longer need to utilize bag space, while adding some new functionality that would continue to make ammunition a compelling element of gameplay. Unfortunately, this intended change will not be completely ready in time for patch 3.1.0.

edit: A bit more info. So we get an extra bag anyway? Just no special ammo yet.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/3/7913073856-1002-hunter-ammunition-changes.html
We still fully intend to move forward with this change when the additional functionality becomes available, and for 3.1.0 we still intend to remove the need for pouches/quivers by greatly increasing the stack sizes on arrows and bullets, and the haste bonus from the bags will be preserved in another fashion. We'll be sure to inform you of further updates once they become available.

Evilstein
11-02-2009, 08:27 AM
Hm, wonder what size of stacks we're talking about here?

Like... 1000/stack? Even 2000, maybe?

Regicide
11-02-2009, 02:17 PM
I reckon 1000?

Not too happy about the delay, but if it means it won't be bugged or anything when it's released then I'd rather wait. Not saying I know much about game designing - but surely they had enough time to implement it? Can't imagine it being that hard.

Vegelus
11-02-2009, 05:27 PM
Awww, Kindred Spirits and Serpent Swiftness are reverted.

Evilstein
12-02-2009, 08:25 AM
Aye, BM is back.
It seems to be on par with Survival after this patch.