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View Full Version : 25/10 man separate?


Luhzren
08-12-2008, 02:58 PM
Hi there, I just wanted to suggest that the 25 man and 10 man raid progress was handled separately so that any 25 man guild that had killed a single boss didn't force a dedicated 10 man guild that had cleared everything way down the list. And yes it's pure vanity on my part, but would still be nice :)

Arthran
08-12-2008, 03:11 PM
i actually have to agree with this, the whole point of the 10/25man split in wotlk was so more casual guilds could push thru all content. having 10man guilds compete with 25man guilds on server progress just doesnt work. Seperate them imo. 2 Seperate lists

Faylin
08-12-2008, 04:59 PM
Who cares. Besides, 25 mans are considered the heroic versions of 10 man, and have higher iLvl drops, so it's only fair they end up higher in the list.

Flawless
08-12-2008, 05:53 PM
Even if you did find a good way to seperate the lists, whats stopping the 25 man guilds doing the 10 man list too?

Elexin
08-12-2008, 05:59 PM
Now its Turiel's database so nothing I say is absolute, but my first thoughts when reading this?

Not going to happen.

We're not having a separate raid progress page for 10 man and 25 man instances.
Raid Progress is Raid Progress.
Its all the same, and this isn't something new: Karazhan and ZA used to share a table with SSC and Sunwell, despite the fact they were 10 mans and the others were 25s.

You can distinguish between 10 and 25 (and both) clears by colour (okay, I'll admit that if you're colour blind it may not be a great system) so if you want to see if someone has cleared the 10 or 25 version of an instance you can see that.

If you only want to compare 10 man raid groups you can do that - they'll all be blue.

(Although I will admit, at the moment the progress of Hellscream's Mercenaries looks a little dodgy compared to the progress of those around them. I assume thats a result of their latest 10 man progress occuring more recently and somehow 'overiding' the colour of their latest 25 man progress)

We're also not going to add the 10 and 25 man instances to the existing raid progress page separately.... and besides, even if we did add them as "separate" instances rather than the current 'shared' ones, the 10mans would still grant less points than the 25 mans, so the end result would be exactly the same.

If the whole point of the 10/25 split was so more casual guilds could see the content, then if they see the content thats the success... because honestly? Even if there were separate 10 and 25 pages, I'd bet that the same guilds would be at the top anyway.
(Edit: Damn you Flaw, you stole my point while I was writing it! :P)

Luhzren
08-12-2008, 08:33 PM
Well my point was that with your current way of listing progression you will have guilds who have killed a single boss in 25 man content higher than a guild that have cleared all 10 man content available. Seems a tad unbalanced.

Hopefully clearing 10 man content won't continuously be thought of as casuals only. Some people are simply just tired of orchestrating 25 people, but still raid dedicated and want to clear all content. A smaller and more focused group is nice :-)

Elexin
08-12-2008, 10:45 PM
Well my point was that with your current way of listing progression you will have guilds who have killed a single boss in 25 man content higher than a guild that have cleared all 10 man content available. Seems a tad unbalanced.

I'm pretty sure thats not actually true, at least not in the strictest and most literal sense I can take it.

I don't like the margin of error I have trying to guestimate the current boss scoreboard though, so I'm going to go bother Turiel for exact values and get back to you on that one :P

Alverion
08-12-2008, 11:23 PM
Yeah, it's real difficult scrolling down, phew my mouse scroll is getting killed by this.

Elexin
08-12-2008, 11:38 PM
Poor Junpei :(

Thordyn
08-12-2008, 11:59 PM
it's only a list

Cheiftan
09-12-2008, 08:45 AM
it's only a list

woah there - let's not say things we can't take back.

Turiel
09-12-2008, 09:05 AM
Its a list that measures your penis size.

But anyway, as a general rule 25man > 10mans. The reasoning is that the 'real' raid progress is 25man and 10man is second rate (or, as someone else said, casual). Maybe you feel differently, but thats the general attitude in the guilds and indeed worldwide. 10man simply doesn't count for much. I know in some cases 10man is actually harder than 25man (sartharion+3) but thats a design flaw on Blizzard's part which will probably be corrected rather than intended.

Muffy
09-12-2008, 09:20 AM
If the list means so much to you do the 10 mans..