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dantheman
17-10-2008, 12:18 AM
.....


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Flawless
17-10-2008, 12:42 AM
an interesting discussion to say the least, while I agree with you on some point have you theorycrafted enough to be able to say that spec is the best over others? as for weapon choice i don't know its really down to personal preference.

Metakerk
17-10-2008, 12:45 AM
i would go with 2 points in that other tree.

Evilstein
17-10-2008, 07:45 AM
Okay... Here goes:

NERF!!!

Legendfierce
17-10-2008, 09:04 AM
Are stupidly OP it will get sorted

Muffy
17-10-2008, 09:11 AM
i own them on my frost mage hooooooooooo!

Rey
17-10-2008, 10:16 AM
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=11228403882&sid=2000

Gwynin
17-10-2008, 10:18 AM
Q: Are we going to nerf Ret?
A:TO THE GROUND BABY!....


Awesome, GC is fun :)

soulshift
17-10-2008, 03:29 PM
I doubt they get nerfed. They're balancing with lvl 80 in mind now.

Rey
17-10-2008, 06:20 PM
Balancing? Who, Blizzard? lol

Bleetman
18-10-2008, 12:13 AM
As much as I try, all I see are warlocks, elemental shamans and druids complaining that they're vastly overpowered.

What's the matter, fed up now it's someone elses turn?

Firreh
18-10-2008, 01:04 AM
I approve of the above post

Hurtgen
18-10-2008, 02:58 AM
Just before the patch came, i got my mits on a t6/full veng palla, and LOVED IT, yes it the pick of SWP/BT weapons and s3 gear, and was quite OP.

logged him for the 1st time today, spent the usual 6 hours setting up the ui, went into WSG, and YES, their dammage is insane, but apart from that, i found it quite dull to play.

With judgement off GCD, and the change in seals/judge, its more of a mash all buttons with autoattack on. I found it abit boring, the dammage just came in big chunks, it wasnt as exciting as pre patch, u had to work for ure burst, for example, HoJ, CS, judge, melee abit, Rep, wait for cds, blah blah blah, yunno how it is. As it is now, u dont really have to even wait for swings to get the dmg, its just Faceroll the keyboard, and stuff probably dies.

I have no comment on their OP dammage or watever, it'll get fixed i guess, or its aimed to be balance at lvl 80. not lvl 70. my grief is the play style u adopt to play it now.

Hurtgen
18-10-2008, 03:01 AM
PS. i heard shockadins could make a comebak? maybe ill give it ago. anyone got any info on it?

Senex
18-10-2008, 07:57 AM
As I stated yesterday, we are happy with Ret's PvE damage and sustatined damage in PvP, but were concerned that the burst damage in PvP could be too high. We discussed this for literally hours yesterday, which was certainly not the first time we have discussed the issue. Thus I hope these changes are not perceived as a knee-jerk reaction, but I am sure that will depend a great deal on which class you play. :)

Divine Storm -- the damage was changed from Holy to Physical. As you know, Holy damage is almost never mitigated and this talent could pack a lot into a very short time. This is a nerf to the ability's damage. This change is now active on Live.

Repentance -- this ability now lasts for only 6 seconds in PvP (down from 10). Obviously this is also a nerf. This change is also active on Live.

Art of War -- now affects all damage done by Judgements, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm (instead of critical strike damage). Net dps should be about the same but less bursty. This change will be made before Nov 13.

Righteous Vengeance -- now applies a dot affect similar to Deep Wounds (instead of critical strike damage). This ends up being a significant buff to the ability to make up for the damage lost to Divine Storm, but is also less bursty. This change will be made before Nov 13. EDIT: The dot will NOT break Repentance.

Glyph of Crusader Strike -- now reduces mana cost (instead of increased damage on stunned targets.) We thought paladins could stack too much damage vs. stunned targets. This change will be made before Nov 13.

We also fixed a bug with Seal and Judgement of Light that could sometimes result in too much healing.

In our tests, Retribution dps remains the same over longer periods of time, but they can't do quite so much damage in the initial few seconds of a PvP encounter.

I know Ret pallies feel a little picked on since we've made this mistake before of having them come out the gate too strong and then had to correct them. For that I do apologize. It's a difficult spec to balance since part of its design is to have large crits and stuns, which have obvious PvP implications. We are pretty confident this will not nerf pallies into the ground as I facetiously promised yesterday, but if we overdid it, we'll be happy to back off some of the changes.

On the other hand, maybe we'll see fewer BGs with 20 paladins on the opposing side and can get some reasonable feedback on all the other classes in the game.

EDIT: To clairfy the new dot will not break Repentance.
The burst is gone, but the DPS still remains.

Bleetman
18-10-2008, 04:25 PM
PS. i heard shockadins could make a comebak? maybe ill give it ago. anyone got any info on it?
Holy shock damage seems to have been upped a fair amount, cooldown lowered by over half of what it was previously. Judgment damage is noticably lower, though. Pulling off 1k~ crits with Righteousness/Judgment now.

On the plus side, Judgment apparently counts as a melee attack (30 yard range or not) and as such procs Seal of Vengeance. A good vanish/invisibility/shadowmeld counter.

Hurtgen
18-10-2008, 04:29 PM
Holy shock damage seems to have been upped a fair amount, cooldown lowered by over half of what it was previously. Judgment damage is noticably lower, though. Pulling off 1k~ crits with Righteousness/Judgment now.

On the plus side, Judgment apparently counts as a melee attack (30 yard range or not) and as such procs Seal of Vengeance. A good vanish/invisibility/shadowmeld counter.

Had ago today with it, went 41/0/20, holy shock can crit upto 4k, seal is low dmg tho. im curious to try a spec that has SoC tho, due to the 100% crit on stunned stuff, but i carnt remmeber if SoC is based on the weapon u use and if it is increased by spell dmg too.

running 30% crit with 13-1400 spell dmg atm

Bleetman
18-10-2008, 04:36 PM
SoC is based on a % of weapon damage, yes. I believe the judgment is affected by spell damage, but not as much as righteousness is.

Hurtgen
18-10-2008, 06:27 PM
Hm, so maybe using a fast melee Oh, sumfin like swiftsteel bludgeon, mite make it worth it. i dunno. with a mix of melee + spell dmg gear.

trying out 40/0/21 now, with that new sanc/retri aura thing. dunno,. fink at lvl 80 will be alot better since u can get vengence + repentance.

Bleetman
18-10-2008, 07:16 PM
I'd be lying if I said I understood why you'd want to go holy/ret shockadin anymore.

Robinvi
18-10-2008, 07:36 PM
The changes to Ret that Senex posted seems reasonable to me. Burste damage will be more balanced now, and as stated the dps will remain pretty much the same, which is good.

Hurtgen
18-10-2008, 11:38 PM
Meh, i dunno, jus playin around with new talents, yunno.

got a ./w from someone today in a bg, ''OMG, holy shockadin, dont see many of them these days!!''

Legendfierce
21-10-2008, 09:34 PM
Makes me laugh out loud that their are actually paladins in that forum that are saying they aint OP and that they dont need to be balanced out, I mean fair enough paladins deserved some love but to see them get that much love every paladin in WoW goes ret nvm what his gear is lvl 63 blues or w/e and still beat veng + players is a joke. But hey im happy i get to kill a target every 3mins when my wolfs are up for a 2 second cc stun which is shit.. instead of nerfing paladins they should buff every other class upto thier standards.

Bunneh
21-10-2008, 09:40 PM
Played Ret for about a day, got bored very rapidly. Gone back protection, seems much more involved.