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Ailith
14-04-2008, 03:46 PM
Hiya,
So, I found a resto druid to PvP with in arena (2v2). Great! But, unfortunately he's 13 (no offense 13 year olds!), doesn't listen, has a bad build, has really bad positioning and can't really kite very well. Oh dear.

For arena PvP, his Druid is specced:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0zjZfMhoZVxIzcqzxst

Which, to me, looks

a) Like a PvE build more than a PvP one (well, it looks like some kinda strange hybrid to me)
b) Has some strangely assigned talents (Omen of Clarity on resto build? No Subtlety at all? Tree of Life? etc.).

I would personally expect a resto arena build to look something more similar to:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0zjZVMhoZqMIxcq0xsx

Now, I mentioned to him this wasn't really a proper PvP build, but his response was something akin to "Lol, it's a pvp build. I took it from full vengeful druids". I point him at Hafu, Sonny and some others, but he just says he doesn't need to look at that. Am I completely wrong thinking that he should have Subtlety and a change of spec?

Now, his healing is only +700/+800 or so. But I'm not so worried about his gear (though he seems not to want to bg to improve it. But I'll try and convince him otherwise). I don't mind if I lose a game because we were outgeared (gear will get better), I'm getting fairly annoyed when we lose because of things he did\didn't do.

He complained about too little mana and I suggested a dreamstate build but he shot that down quickly (and tbf, I think dreamstate would not be a good build until he has much better gear).

He mostly likes to try to heal right in the middle of the room, where he has no chance of using los against casters or warriors or anything (he will get feared to death fairly often). He seems determined to stand there and cast tranquility now and then, whilst being wailed on by a warrior. And he hasn't really grasped the concept of kiting yet, though I try to explain now and then. I also told him he should only be using instant heals the majority of the time and if they aren't enough he needs more +heal.

He can also be fairly annoying and demanding, but I put that down to the fact of language barrier and age. Which I can put up with :)

I told him to watch some druid movies, mentioning some of the more famous resto ones. He then informed me the next day he watched a 1700 (!!!) rated druid on youtube and now had new skills!

Now, we've reached around 1620 together. Though we tend to lose a few then, so hang around 1550-1620, up and down. I would say if he could play a bit better, we should be able to reach 1700+ and combined with better gear I believe we could get a rating 1800-1900. If he got a shit-load better 2k+ ;p Though admittedly, I think I would need to get a bit better too to break 2k, but don't think it's out of my possibilities.

So, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions I could make to him or things I could say that maybe he will take notice of or would help him. Not saying it's easy, it's just even when I tell him what he's doing wrong he seems to do it again anyway :(

Über
14-04-2008, 03:49 PM
He's beyond help.

But you can help yourself though. Ditch the druid.

Oh, and remember to screenshot the possible drama that follows from the tragic breaking of the team and post them @ sse.

Ailith
14-04-2008, 04:05 PM
But you can help yourself though. Ditch the druid.
I'm fairly tempted to do that, but have no druid or anyone else to replace him atm unfortunately. :s

Oh, and remember to screenshot the possible drama....
I will ;)

Platypus
14-04-2008, 06:26 PM
Get a disc priest instead, then. As Über mentioned earlier, he's beyond help.

Souldrago
15-04-2008, 12:31 PM
His spec is fine, no idea why he would take Naturalist, Instead of subtelty but that isnt that big of a deal, Tree of life is pointless yes, But for a pvp aspect there are no other restoration talents worth having, +15% spirit is near to useless so it leaves putting them in the balance tree.
11/11/39 is the top spec imo

I tried a balancing spec for pve and pvp, Didn't like all the respeccing but will have to respec soon to full pve unfortunatly hence why i currently have tree of lol.


Now, Druid/rogue is not the easiest team to play, perhaps before 1900 it's piss but once you get higher you will find mass amounts of warrior/druids and warlock/druids which are your nemesis. I managed to reach 2135 or something with a rogue, it wasn't easy at all, You have to rely on your cheat death alot, those extra drinking seconds make all the difference.

Some tips, NEVER be affraid to cyclone a target on low hps, this wastes the other healers heals, gives your rogue time to get energy back and perhaps even -restealth.

Teamwork, Druids are very squishy against setups like shaman/warrior, double dps teams, It's the rogues job to protect him as much as possible, Voice chat is very much required for this setup to do well.

For each setup is a different tactic, I recommend you find a guide or something, It's a very complex setup to play and hard to master, There is a reason why there is only 1 very high rogue/druid :)

Yeh your druid is very young, Might be tough for you to carry on with this team if you want it to do well, Rogues have lots of options for partners in 2vs2.

Priest is your easiest option.

Wartauren
15-04-2008, 08:33 PM
If you want him to get better in general, have him watch Sonny's movies (some of them), as those in general give a fairly good clue regarding positioning.

His healing is fairly low so that'd be the first thing he'd want to work on.

And as Souldrago said, a guide is usually a good idea and This (http://www.arenajunkies.com/strategy/2v2/Dru_Rog/) seems to be one of the better.

Ailith
15-04-2008, 10:30 PM
Yea, well, we reached 1634 rating this week. Tbf he's improved a little. Though we lost some games today simply because he did things utterly wrong.

Yea, I protect the druid as much as i can in arena battles. Shiv crippling the dps on him, gouging as I run past. Using that combo point for slice'n'dice. Against warrior + druid, I find I play extremely similar to how Jamoro plays in his movie. Obviously not as good :P But my play style looked surprisingly similar to me. Though I guess that will get harder as rating goes up.

We lost a game, simply because he was outgeared on mana. And he apologised after, but I told him it's okay to lose when the team doesn't suck and they outgear us. I think he think's I blame him everytime we lose now, which I don't -_-

I'll point him at Sonny a bit more forcefully and see if I can convince him to respec a little. Didn't think of 11/11/39. Insect swarm would be v.useful I think.

His main issues, I find, are positioning and kiting. I guess that improves with experience though and maybe some sonny movies will help too :)

Souldrago
15-04-2008, 11:10 PM
Using voice com?

Bleetman
16-04-2008, 01:53 AM
unfortunately he's 13 (no offense 13 year olds!), doesn't listen, has a bad build, has really bad positioning and can't really kite very well.

resto druid
You'll be 2k in no time, then.

Tsarina
16-04-2008, 04:18 AM
Using voice com?
You're exaggerating the importance of this.

Kathra
16-04-2008, 04:41 AM
You're exaggerating the importance of this.

Maybe, we have hard evidence on SS of people who can skyrocket ratings without voice coms, but if the druids as bad as Ailith says, it might be easier for him to recieve orders via headphones so he doesn't have to keep up with that chat window.

Tsarina
16-04-2008, 05:05 AM
Maybe, we have hard evidence on SS
And not only there.
But my point is, don't expect any big changes. If you suck without it, you'll suck with it. It's not a free 200 rating increase.

Ailith
16-04-2008, 06:46 AM
Using voice com?
No, I don't think voice communication is going to help all that much until you reach or break 2k+ rating teams. And people I've talked to have said voice com didn't make much of a difference to them. But if I ever find myself on a 'good' team, I would at least like to try it.

There is also the fact he's 13, and I don't want his parents getting paranoid cause some geezer wants to talk to their kid over teh internets -_-

You'll be 2k in no time, then.
lol ;D Well, I am *not* bothered about rating, ofc it's nice to get as high as possible. But I mostly want to just not lose because we sucked. I don't really care if I was at 1600 forever, as long as it's fun, but losing to teams I think suck isn't fun ;(

You're exaggerating the importance of this.
I have heard voice com is over-exaggerated, would be nice to try it sometime though just to see myself :)

Ailith
16-04-2008, 06:58 AM
Okay, I will link his profile.

http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shadowsong&n=Enalu

Is there some gear or gemming changes I can suggest? I would think his meta gem is a strange choice (half cast speed gem rather than mana restore...). He's also missing a few gem slot bonuses. But not sure if that's typical for an arena druid.

Teams that outgear us, either drop him quickly. He can reduce that by learning to kite, usually, which I'll try to help him with via movies and talking to him and using los. Or he will get out-mana'd. Him being out-mana'd is less frustrating, because it usually means he just needs better gear (when he gets outmana'd it usually feels like he played okay).

Tsarina
16-04-2008, 09:37 AM
It seems he has a mix of feral, resto and balance gear. That's not optimal. His spec is ok. Of course, all the cool druids are dreamstate build these days. And their partners are loving it.

Lednar
16-04-2008, 10:36 AM
Right
As Tsarina says he got mixed feral/balance/Resto gear. That's for sure quite useless. In long battles you'll loose due his mp5 anyway(except they let him drink all the time :P )

Yeah, that gem should be changed. I personally use a +stam/stun resist gem atm. Kinda nice but I think I'm gonna switch to mana resto soon.

His specc is alright, nothing special. But I personally wouldn't use that one for arena.

You got some options...
1) Ditch him and find a new one.
2) Get voice com up and tell him what to do.
3) Continue go with him and convince him into that he have to respec/regem/<insert random things needed> before.
4) ???
Profit? :P

Rey
16-04-2008, 07:29 PM
Voice com is overrated.

And Kafra sucks, we played 38-1 instead of 39-0 and it was his fault!! nab!!

Kathra
17-04-2008, 02:29 AM
Voice com is overrated.

And Kafra sucks, we played 38-1 instead of 39-0 and it was his fault!! nab!!

in b4 gentlemen

Valoran
17-04-2008, 05:39 AM
He has a 5 parry rating gem in his chestpiece.

Get a new partner.

Lednar
17-04-2008, 06:56 AM
Yeah, voice com is overrated. But when it's a special case like this, then it's most likely NEEDED...!

Rofl @ Valorans comment...

Rey
17-04-2008, 10:34 AM
Gentlemen

Lednar
17-04-2008, 10:50 AM
Okai, I'll go Travel Form and be a nice kitty as Eclairs would say to me :(

Response
17-04-2008, 08:57 PM
If u need a New Partner give me a PM m8.We can sort out how active u are etc.

Resp.

( On My druid Ofc not this char )

Ailith
18-04-2008, 12:43 PM
My computer broken at the moment -_-

Should be back online near beginning of next month. bleh.

Slicer
19-04-2008, 02:14 AM
I find I play extremely similar to how Jamoro plays in his movie. Obviously not as good :P

Jamoro, as in the rogue with double warglaives Jamoro? He was absolutely awful, dire and should have been shot. Repeatedly. Changing targets and ProM bouncing, not CloSing when a priest runs right into him, vanishing + CloSing a frost trap etc etc. Don't copy Jamoro at all, just don't. If you want good rogues, look at Acrono, Krymu and (as much as I dislike him) Neilyo. Neilyo's latest movies were garbage though.

As to the druid, ditch him. If he's not good to start with it's doubtful he'll get much better magically overnight. As you've said, if he won't listen, improve gear or watch any videos of those better than him then he's not worth teaming with.

Edit: just checked his profile, his gems are retarded to the point of wondering how on earth he leveled that druid to 70 himself. 5 parry, good thing druids can parry. He has spell penetration and spell crit, for those mad killing blow steals, Ayla does it all the time. He's missing an enchant on bracers and has zilch in the way of blue quality gems.

... and the level 60 trinket.

Lednar
21-04-2008, 06:19 AM
Yeah, he totally wins alright'?

Ailith
21-04-2008, 08:24 AM
Jamoro, as in the rogue with double warglaives Jamoro? He was absolutely awful, dire and should have been shot. Repeatedly. Changing targets and ProM bouncing, not CloSing when a priest runs right into him, vanishing + CloSing a frost trap etc etc.

I actually watched the Jamoro movie again after posting that, and I must have been thinking of another movie 'cause I don't look like Jamoro at all tbh. But can't remember which movie felt familiar, was something though.

Don't copy Jamoro at all, just don't.
I don't copy anyone, sure I watch lots (and lots) of movies (and not just rogue movies either), but I don't "copy" them :)

As to the druid, ditch him.
Ditching someone is easy if you have someone else to play with, but if it's a choice of playing arena with someone and not playing arena at all, ditching them is not the best choice... ;)

I mostly lack arena experience, think I could manage a hell of a lot higher in rating. But at least I get to play arena and gain some experience.

Fireyjimmy
09-05-2008, 08:04 PM
Using voice com?

Me and my partner have No voice comms at all and were hovering the 1900 region. having said that im sure using voice comms would help us to get nearer 2000 :P

Souldrago
10-05-2008, 05:17 PM
Well if you and your partner know each others game inside out, then i guess it's fine without voice coms.
1900 doesn't exactly require alot of tactics/skill though. I can guarantee most of the top ranked arena teams use voice coms

For me i wont do arena's with anyone which isnt willing to atleast listen because....

1. it's easier, to communicate instead of pausing the fight half way through and start typing
2. it's more fun, you get to know people better
3. You get to yell at people :(