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View Full Version : Resillience for druids


Eidriaen
19-01-2008, 04:28 PM
God I need some help :P Here I was thinking that resillience were only good for PvP.

Reducing DoTs, crits and crit dmg right? But I was in grp with a raider from some guild who were doing SSC, and he claimed that their tanking druid were using PvP/arena gear, and kicking ass.... or rather getting his ass kicked... nvm.

Isnt crits only a player stat? Meaning a mob cant crit..? Or was I totally wrong about that

Thx
Eid

Kinshara
19-01-2008, 04:36 PM
Mobs can crit you with physical attacks; it's fixed at a 5% chance for an equal level mob, iirc. Wearing either +defense or +resilience reduces this chance. Talents also help.

I don't believe they can crit with spells.

tin
19-01-2008, 06:42 PM
For a druid, resilience is more or less equal to defense in usefulness as a PvE tank. At least in regard to mitigating mob crits. Mobs of same level as you have a 5% chance to crit (5,60% for bossmobs), which has to be mitigated by talents, defense or resilience (or more likely a combination).

Due to the fact that druids can't parry or block, which also prevent them from mitigating crushing blows, and given their high dodge change from talents and/or agility defense and resilience is used for avoiding crits more than anything else (warriors/pala's get more benefit from defense than resilience).

Another reason many druids use resilience instead of defense is, that it's easier to obtain good gear with resilience (the arena set) than good gear with defense (clefthoof set and rings / amulets / trinkets / cloaks... since no druid tier sets have defense).

Assuming 3/3 survival of the fittest (-3% crit on you) you will need to mitigate 2,6% crit to be uncritttable by a boss mob, and wheter it's done by defense or resilience is of lesser importance.

there's loads of info on the subject available on the web... google can help you find it if you're still curious ;)


-Tin

Saha
19-01-2008, 07:00 PM
What Tin said. To add some:
considering feral needs only 2.6% crit reduction against boss mob, equiping more than 1-2 pvp items has no sence unless you have extreemly bad luck with drops. Overall, pvp gear has quite shite amount of agility, hence pve geared druid tank will take less dmg overall and generate more threat than pvp geared druid. The choise of pvp gear is viable, but is far from best.

The question more or less comes into play with low progress pve guilds who have limited gear availability. Lets say they are working on clearing ssc/tk so feral has access to t4 basicaly, against welfare season 3 gear. This brings somewhat serious disbalance in loot where pvp gear is actualy better than raid gear for pve content.
Its absurd, but what can you do. Blizzs biggest failure of the TBC imho. Either you got into train of high end guilds or at least ones that manage to clear ssc/tk by now and have the use of both pve gear for pve and pvp gear for pvp, or your interest in pve raids consists mostly of "seeing new bosses and having fun". This can possibly explain the huge increase of total nabs in bgs and general frustration for those who wish to have some decent games.

Kinshara
19-01-2008, 07:35 PM
'Cept pvp gear isn't better for raiding than the Tier gear available *before* a given season was announced.

PvE wise, the PvP gear mainly serves as a catchup method rather than demanding everyone spend 3 months farming Karazhan to replace a tank, or get a dpser a decent weapon -- which lets you progress despite someone crucial leaving the guild/game. Not perfect, but certainly not a big mistake; the best PvE stuff is still in PvE instances.

Saha
20-01-2008, 12:01 AM
'Cept pvp gear isn't better for raiding than the Tier gear available *before* a given season was announced.

PvE wise, the PvP gear mainly serves as a catchup method rather than demanding everyone spend 3 months farming Karazhan to replace a tank, or get a dpser a decent weapon -- which lets you progress despite someone crucial leaving the guild/game. Not perfect, but certainly not a big mistake; the best PvE stuff is still in PvE instances.

Not sure what you are talking about. Season 3 druid healing set for example is only slightly worse than t5 and is better than t4. Same with feral. Personaly, I am not sure if I'd be willing to throw out tons of gold for new chants/gems if "upgrade" is +15 healing. So tell me, what catch up you are talking about? MH/BT?

Farming Kara to replace a tank is surely absurd and again I am not sure wtf you are talking about. For that there is a progression ladder, where guilds with better progress recruit what they need from lower guilds/same progression guilds.

Kinshara
20-01-2008, 12:10 AM
You assume that you'll be able to find someone at the right level of progression. This isn't always the case.

And yeah, S3 armor for many classes is about level with T5. Given that it came out after T6, what I said is true.

Saha
20-01-2008, 12:53 AM
Its absurd, but what can you do. Blizzs biggest failure of the TBC imho. Either you got into train of high end guilds or at least ones that manage to clear ssc/tk by now and have the use of both pve gear for pve and pvp gear for pvp, or your interest in pve raids consists mostly of "seeing new bosses and having fun". This can possibly explain the huge increase of total nabs in bgs and general frustration for those who wish to have some decent games.

Read as: If you are person who is starting to raid at current moment or you are even learning lets say Solarian/Leo encounter, your interest in loot that is being provided by your pve raiding is minimal, due to PvP loot being on par/better and easier accessable.
That technicaly leads a large portion of fresh lvl 70s into BGs/arenas instead of doing instances/raiding and hence has a huge negative effect on BGs overall play quality. Due to totaly shit gear as well as close to 0 understanding about class, game or anything.

'Cept pvp gear isn't better for raiding than the Tier gear available *before* a given season was announced.


Not sure what you are talking about. Season 3 druid healing set for example is only slightly worse than t5 and is better than t4. Same with feral. Personaly, I am not sure if I'd be willing to throw out tons of gold for new chants/gems if "upgrade" is +15 healing. So tell me, what catch up you are talking about? MH/BT?



And yeah, S3 armor for many classes is about level with T5. Given that it came out after T6, what I said is true.


Cookies are good, what I said is true. Does this make sence as a reply?




So do you.

Kinshara
20-01-2008, 01:46 AM
*Sigh*

As I said, it lets you catch up to the current equivalent progression point. S3 is equivalent to T6, but less optimal for pve(especially for warrior/paladin tanks and many dpsers). This will be more noticeable when Sunwell comes out. So yeah, it would let you catch up to starting MH/BT level.

Is your complaint based around the fact that people can skip straight from greens to S3 without grabbing everything in between? Or that pvp rewards are more predictable? (Or both?)

If the former, a bad player with green gear may well take a straight year to assemble as close to a full S3 set as possible. (Excluding weapons/shoulders, as you actually need to be halfway decent to get those). Point gain for sub 1500 ratings is quite bad. I suppose Blizzard could institute an upgrade scheme wherein you turned in your S(x ) armor piece and gained the equivalent S(x+1) piece, so you did have to go through the whole chain. Would that be more to your liking?

If the latter, well... the pve reward system does need to be improved in that area. Screwing up the pvp loot system isn't a good idea imo.

As far as shit players getting gear and messing stuff up goes.... that's always happened. Not a whole lot that can be done about it if Blizzard wishes to keep subscriber numbers up.

Saha
20-01-2008, 03:37 AM
Its not PVE loot system which needs to be improoved. Well... except, maybe, giving Serhiy some loot from illidan so he stops whining, cursed vision or a glave should do.

If a bit more serious, "epix for all" fails, and fails hard. If this ideology will be continued in Wotlk, we'll end up getting blue pvp gear for bg dailies and epix for 1 day of AV farming. Ohh wait, we already can get epix that way.... hmm, legendaries?=P

Alverion
20-01-2008, 05:30 PM
Ignoring the conversation above this. Resilience is generally a very good stat for ferals, some of which Tin already covered. But the other reason is that it's an incredibly cheap stat in terms of item level. You tend to get decent amounts of it on gear that has good stats as it is.

The pvp bracers are the best possible tanking bracers you can get for a feral. There is nothing better.

There are only 5 bracers with agility on the same level or better, only 2 of those have higher stamina, 1 has higher armour, 0 have higher resilience (or even equal to).

Slap a +8 (+10 if you have the resources) resilience gem in them, enchant with +12 defense, and you are looking at a single item making up 0.7+% of your crit immunity. Which frees up a lot of other slots for better stat gear.

The belt is another good choice when you are starting out (up until the point that the bracers plus rings/neck/trinkets/etc make up over the 2.6% limit) as it's a lot of good stats with resilience on top. In fact, once you have it, you are not likely to replace it for quite a while since for straight up tanking, there aren't many more options available to you at any gear level that are really clear upgrades.

Saha
20-01-2008, 11:34 PM
Yeap, pvp bracers is ultimate win. Was wearing them for ages up until I sorted out my def through rings/trinket/neck/cloak. Wearing the badger ones atm, though its tiny if any upgrade.

Gyundor
21-01-2008, 01:27 PM
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16902-feral_druid_megathread/ Feral Druid Megathread on EJ

Will basicly tell you everything Tin/Saha/Junpei told you and more.

It shows exact amounts needed for critimmunity etc.

Eidriaen
24-01-2008, 05:21 PM
Thx guys for the constructive feedback :) Great site Gyu!

Eidriaen
24-01-2008, 05:21 PM
wtf? great