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View Full Version : 2.3...why are blizzard doin this?????


Thrudeln
16-10-2007, 12:54 PM
When the next patch comes, mages will get 15 sec longer hypothermia..in addition, hunters will get their dead zone removed.
Locks will drain 4% more hp for every DoT that the target is affected by......In other words, all classes will get buffed while mages will get nerfed abit.

I cant really see the point with this nerfs/buffs...Mages could need a nerf maybe, since over 50% of all WoW movies are Frost mages that pwn lots of players at the same time, but what about locks?
SL/SL locks are almost unbeatable theese days, and the only "Nerf" they will get, is that Drain Life will get affected by healing reducing effects like Mortal strike etc.

Imo its too many locks. Locks are the ultimate arena class with SL/SL specc.. its like: OO I HAS SOUL LINK, SIPHON LIFE, 12K HP UNBUFFED, 500RESI AND DRAIN LIFE! I CANT DIE".
When i did 2v2 arena last week with my rl friend rogue, we fell from 2050 rating to 1824 rating......in other words, about ALL teams we met was paladin+SL/SL lock or Resto drood + SL/SL lock with full merciless....It isnt even fun to play arena anymore.
A good geared sl/sl lock > A skilled mage with good gear in most situations...so if blizzard buffs Drain Life vs classes that havent got healing reducing abilitys, and increases hypothermia by additional 15 sec, how can mages even stand a chance vs locks in next season??

And..mages vs BM hunters...hunters can dispell ice barrier with arcane shot, we can no longer stay in their dead zone since they are gonna remove it, and we will have longer debuff from hypothermia...

Im not looking forward to next season:(

Flawless
16-10-2007, 01:19 PM
and at the end of the day, frost mages still have fucking awesome survivability.

Kinshara
16-10-2007, 01:35 PM
Locks will drain 4% more hp for every DoT that the target is affected by....

I'll ignore the rest of the post for now, but I just figured I'd note that this is a nerf. They currently get 5% more for all affliction debuffs on the target with 2 points in the talent, so they will be draining a bit less than before when 2.3 hits.

Thrudeln
16-10-2007, 01:38 PM
i have a lock rl friend. He said that the 4% would come besides the talent

Kinshara
16-10-2007, 01:44 PM
From the current 2.3 patch notes:

"Soul Siphon (Affliction) now increases damage by 2/4% and no longer affects Drain Mana."

Soul Siphon currently increases by 2%/5%. Please to be doing math.

▄ber
16-10-2007, 01:44 PM
all classes will get buffed while mages will get nerfed abit.

._.

It isnt even fun to play arena anymore.

It never was, reroll pvp and do some outdoor wtfpwning.

Vegelus
16-10-2007, 01:47 PM
You will be fien, don't worry.
By the way, more question marks please, maybe some exlamations and 111oneoneleven!! too. :P

Gnorth
16-10-2007, 01:49 PM
less QQ tbh! Hunter activates BW, you iceblock. Congrats, we now have a winner.

Thrudeln
16-10-2007, 01:53 PM
hard to do world pvp on a pve server:(

Warlee
16-10-2007, 02:23 PM
we fell from 2050 rating to 1824 rating......


in sucky battlegrp lol ! I didn't know in Nagrand's one it's even possible to have rating below 2k, I mean you could have had it if being ulitmate noob. And ... another whine post. Did you just wake up about warlocks? Whole TBC is like this. It's pve game, wakey wakey

Thrudeln
16-10-2007, 02:33 PM
Its still a nub battlegrp, but...In the last few weeks the number of lock teams have exploded.
And i know locks have been like this since TBC came, but i started to play with a rogue 1 week ago in 2v2 instead of the lock i played with, and now i realise how imba they are in arena =/

Warlee
16-10-2007, 02:38 PM
Try to play with feral druid in 2v2. Not matter if you do all perfectly u will loose to warlock team anyway, even if they suck.


Example is 'The Fat Cow and the PRO'. Have u seen there any decent locks in movie? No, when in s2 amount of walrocks increased , were they able to play in this setup? In worse bgp they got 1900 than gave up.

Thrudeln
16-10-2007, 02:43 PM
i know. played with Koy(when he was feral) in 2v2 before.
If you play mage+druid or rogue = Loose vs lock teams very often

Đightrain
16-10-2007, 09:19 PM
Rofl this thread fails.. "ONOZ there's a class that can beat me, doesn't matter that i can wtfpwn rogues, warriors, loladins... infact probably just about anything other than locks by sitting in skillblock while my elemental does all the work and i just come out and spam an icelance!!!Oen1On1e!e1!!!!"... There's a reason that arena's are 2v2, 3v3 + 5v5... it's called class balancing... quit whining that you cant beat every single class in the game while just sitting in iceblock.
There was another person that used to whine about how imba locks are all over one of the forums, so he rolled lock himself, then found out that he not only sucked at his original char, he also sucked at lock and stopped crying about it... Either roll a lock and prove yourself right about how imba they are or balance your teams to beat them.

Thrudeln
17-10-2007, 06:54 AM
well...mages are overpowered vs most of the classes in this game, i can agree with that.
But check this out...this is just evil.

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/stream.php?id=47420&stream=Filefront

Lvl 70 warlock with full lvl 60 gear, 0 Resi, beats full glad/merciless geared players.


I cant figure out how the merciless geared players managed to loose to a lock with 0resi and 8k hp or something. that should be really easy imo.

Valoran
17-10-2007, 03:37 PM
Duels don't really mean much. It's impossible to balance wow, nevermind balance it for 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, wsg, ab, av and eots (admittedly who cares about the last four these days). Live with it, and work with the changes.

Or quit.

Warlee
17-10-2007, 05:21 PM
let's just close this topic. If you want to share your feelings about warlocks that are known already to all than just go to wow public forum, there u will find X people doing it already since january 2007 :P


so does all melee classes about frost mages, normal huh

Marcuk
17-10-2007, 07:02 PM
Rofl this thread fails.. "ONOZ there's a class that can beat me, doesn't matter that i can wtfpwn rogues, warriors, loladins... infact probably just about anything other than locks by sitting in skillblock while my elemental does all the work and i just come out and spam an icelance!!!Oen1On1e!e1!!!!"... There's a reason that arena's are 2v2, 3v3 + 5v5... it's called class balancing... quit whining that you cant beat every single class in the game while just sitting in iceblock.
There was another person that used to whine about how imba locks are all over one of the forums, so he rolled lock himself, then found out that he not only sucked at his original char, he also sucked at lock and stopped crying about it... Either roll a lock and prove yourself right about how imba they are or balance your teams to beat them.

/agree

Saved me doing it <3

Ajial
17-10-2007, 08:24 PM
I think whine threads are generally bad recieved here for a very simple reason; We dont care.

Me personally? I dont care what you think in that way, i honestly believe blizzard do what they think is best and as Valoran rightly said, deal with it or quit.. Dont come here complaining because there is enough useless threads here already without us all making one about stuff that is really of no importance.

In short deal with it ;)

Oh to add, dicussion threads are a different matter, if you want to have an open conversation about a specific part of a patch or the whole patch thats good!

Discussion good, whining bad mmkay

Manidim
17-10-2007, 09:50 PM
I would advice you to look on the 2.3 patch notes again Thrud, as far as I can see, the hypothermia increase is the only nerf there at all, and the rest is buffs.

Senex
17-10-2007, 11:04 PM
Im not looking forward to next season:(
Yeah, the loss of the damage tax on improved FBs, doubled meditation gains, scaling Wards/Barrier, increased RC range and the new manafood ritual are all MAJOR nerfs to your class. :rolleyes:

Kinshara
17-10-2007, 11:11 PM
I would advice you to look on the 2.3 patch notes again Thrud, as far as I can see, the hypothermia increase is the only nerf there at all, and the rest is buffs.

Pretty much, though the change to Evo ends up being a nerf to mages who have plenty of spirit (generally pve mages who swap in a +spirit stat weapon before using it). I think it ends up being a buff to pvp geared mages. Some good, some bad.... *shrug*

I do think the mana gems need a little bit of a buff though.

Kenny
18-10-2007, 01:09 AM
OO I HAS SOUL LINK, SIPHON LIFE, 12K HP UNBUFFED, 500RESI AND DRAIN LIFE! I CANT DIE".

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Talnivarr&n=Kennay
Close enough. :(

Corruption
18-10-2007, 07:11 AM
ZHC O_o

Stim
18-10-2007, 08:39 AM
Remove Hyptherima and deal 3000 to all around healing you for damage caused when using Iceblock *nod
You'd certainly appreciate that, huh?

Hoshingen
20-10-2007, 05:05 PM
LMAO locks get buffed?

I stopped reading after that.

Iyachtu
24-10-2007, 10:54 AM
Not like another 15 sec added to hypothermia is going to change anything for frostmages in the 2vs2 bracket. Considering how easy it is for a mage to keep you locked down using rank 1 spells then going ooc to regenerate.

Senex
24-10-2007, 11:41 AM
Blizzard class balancing process:

1) Measure with a micrometer gauge.
2) Mark the spot with chalk.
3) Cut with a battleaxe.

Warlee
24-10-2007, 01:56 PM
Not like another 15 sec added to hypothermia is going to change anything for frostmages in the 2vs2 bracket. Considering how easy it is for a mage to keep you locked down using rank 1 spells then going ooc to regenerate.



actualy amount of mages in 2v2 is really limited if u check top 70. VERY. And warriors? Huh ? 50%?

Not like i whine, nah. Just it's like warlock would whine about mages

mages and hunters are the rarest class geting gladiator from 2v2

Kinshara
24-10-2007, 02:12 PM
actualy amount of mages in 2v2 is really limited if u check top 70. VERY. And warriors? Huh ? 50%?

Not like i whine, nah. Just it's like warlock would whine about mages

mages and hunters are the rarest class geting gladiator from 2v2

Aye, most powerful 2v2 teams at present seem to be resto druid with either a warlock or a warrior... and the druid's excellent kiting ability with hot-based healing is a large part of that.

Stim
02-11-2007, 10:09 AM
I blame cyclone (spell not BG lulz)

Trupiaczacha
02-11-2007, 01:16 PM
if you bored read this - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2650560331&sid=1

god i did read up all :O did take almost 1:30H :( but nice post there ... rly nice points...

but sadly moste ppl will say "stop QQ" and nothing more. it is sad so many no-brain ppl play this game.

Ailith
02-11-2007, 02:56 PM
it is sad so many no-brain ppl play this game.

Sorry, I keep meaning to stop playing :s Maybe one day.

Jethrotull
06-11-2007, 11:36 PM
if you bored read this - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...50560331&sid=1

god i did read up all :O did take almost 1:30H but nice post there ... rly nice points...

but sadly moste ppl will say "stop QQ" and nothing more. it is sad so many no-brain ppl play this game.


I've read it, can't say I spend 1,5 hours on it so I might miss some of it, but at first sight:

In no particular order...

1. Mana efficiency. Whether through talents, improved spells, or a review of mage item budgeting, we need more of it primarily for PvP but also for PvE. Resilience and high health pools have hurt the mage class arguably more than any other class (maybe not hunters).

2. Utility. We don't bring anything of value to arenas. No self healing, no ways of mitigating healing, very low survivability emphasized by the newest hypothermia duration increase (not to mention the lowest health pool and armor of any class), no mana drains, etc. Same deal with PvE. We bring the optional convenience of food/water and portals. Polymorph is an outdated crowd control that has low use in endgame PvE and whose use in arenas is easily replaced by other classes. Our AoE is far too costly, does far too little damage, and is far too impractical to use. Especially when compared to Seed of Corruption. Mages are the kings of AoE? I beg to differ...quantity is not better than quality.

3. Arcane tree. It has no purpose in the game right now. It's not good for PvE. It's not good for PvP. It's not good for leveling. It's a gimmick tree that is overshadowed by both fire and frost for all intents and purposes. We need a significant review of this tree.

4. Fire and frost flexibility. As of now fire is strictly a PvE talent tree. Frost is strictly a PvP talent tree. If you try to switch these builds from their assumed roles performance plummets. Simply put, fire needs more survivability and frost needs more damage. Mages want variety for their gameplay, and that is something we are lacking right now.

5. Damage. While bringing significantly less to raids in comparison to other DPS classes, mages also must go above and beyond as far as effort goes to get to the top 5 spot for damage in endgame 25-mans. Warlocks, hunters, and rogues outdamage us noticeably in most situations. Hybrid dps builds come dangerously close to approaching our dps (even surpassing it in some situations). For mages, who have so long been called things like "glass cannon" and "kings of single target DPS", this is very insulting. We sacrifice our survivability to be the kings of ranged dps.


This guy is a whining dipshit imho.

#1
The evocation change is a nerf for a lot of PvE players (compensated by Arcane Concentration). Arena players who have next to no spirit will see a significant buff from this. if you can evo for 4 seconds (doable using pillar-abuse) you restore 30% of your mana, good luck getting that without spirit. I agree on his point the manastones suck, they do. But mana efficieny on mages is fine, especially on frost mages who have cheap spells. 270-something on frostbolt, 150 ish on icelance. If you burn through 10k of mana without killing your enemy you might want to alter your playing style or gear.

#2
I actually agree with him here, except for the AoE part, which is awesome for mages, good luck finding any class pumping out more aoe dps in a short amount of time. Seed of corruption is definitely nice, and fear>poly, but that has always been that way.

#3
He classifies the arcane tree a useless tree, which it is not. it is totally awesome for dps in a raid environment, and especially with 2/5 Tier-5. His actual complaint :

As 2.3 rolls around and new tier sets are added, the 2/5 pieces of tier 5 will have to go at some point. Then the arcane mages will either have to deal with a seemingly flawed tree in the game or change their spec to fire to deal damage that is less than they were doing before.

He actually says here: "if you get better gear you deal less dmg" wow, I'll have some of what he's smoking. I always thought that when you lose dps/efficiency the gear might actually be WORSE! The only complaint is that 20% extra dmg is so awesome that he never wants to let it go, thank blizzard for not nerfing that, instead of complaining.

#4
True in the way that fire is better for PvE, though nice in PvP (other thread). Frost def. has the upper hand in PvP while dealing significantly less dmg in PvE. Big deal?
Ye Fire mages want more survivability and frost needs more dmg, isn't that awesome, I'm sure prot warriros want more dps also, or maybe give Fury warriors a nice talent so everyone will end up speccing the same, since it matters nothing. It's the talent-trees that make for variety in gameplay, with the only issue being some classes are 'forced' into speccing a certain way, think healers and tanks. Mages have nothing to complain about there.

#5
"While bringing significantly less than other classes"? Is this guy even playing the same game as I am? A raid where hunters are without their pets, and melee have to run in and out of range depending on whatever a boss does, mages have nothing to complain about. stand in the back avoid taking dmg and pump out as much dmg as you possibly, and safely can. Hardly the hardest part to fulfill in a raidgroup.


His complaint is about Hypothermia, not a whole lot more. Can't say I disagree with him there, 30 seconds is a long time for a class not being able to protect itself very well.
I have a suggestino to add: make fear break on taking dmg, just like poly, and all is forgotten.


The few complaints that actually do have the reality to back them up are overshadowed by his QQ-spree imho. He wants mages with any given specc or any given gear to excel at everything, that's not going to happen. He's pouring Arena complaints and then suddenly gets raiding into the QQ-soup, I can't help but feeling this is a frost mage who gets his ass handed to him dps-wise in raids, and has difficulty against (maybe better) opponents in the Arena.
I wonder what rogues and warriors have to say about the highly skilled, ice-lance spamming frost mages in Arena's. Wait...........I already know.

Jethrotull
06-11-2007, 11:51 PM
I could edit, but was getting hard to read for the lazy forum-lurker :)


This is a very fitting reply, and on the first page as well:
Maybe all u mages should stop Complaining about what blizzard is doing to mages (yes they have @*@@ed us abit) but you just have to go with it.

Me I love playing my mage and honestly i think mages are just fine as we are. The only thing that I disagree about in the nerf the most is the Iceblock nerf (hyopthermia) which is not needed and blizzard will probly turn it back to 30s liek they did with our Counterspell that one time (GG blizzard). Anyways, mages are a very competive and burst damage class in pvp and although we can't self sustain outselfs in a long fight without the help of Shadow priests we can still do amazing damage without the fear of pulling aggro now that we have invis to competely drop our aggro and burst away after without fear.

My adivce to u is to learn2play a @*@@en mage. We are fine in mostly all aspects (Yes, some aspects of a mage are messed) but not enough to @*@@en remove us from the game. If you have such problems with the mage class then @*@@en re-roll another dps class like a rogue, since they have the fewest problems imo.

Patch 2.3 is gonna help us in raids and pvp even though the meta gem got nerfed (Not sure what it will be) Arcane mages will still do a competive amount of damage in raids. Arcane mages have a @*@@en 70% threat reduce in raids, @*@@en blow the boss apart then invis and blow him @*@@en apart again.
Apart from the fact he got the number wrong, it's not 70% (but 58,84% with subtlety enchant), he's right about the mage thing, I'm not burning my hands on the claim rogues have the least problems.

Trupiaczacha
07-11-2007, 08:27 AM
after reading yours ansers on first 3 i did stop it tbh. i see you know shit about mages.

l2p.

Gnorth
07-11-2007, 08:28 AM
They've reduced hypothermia back to 30 secs again. source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/

Gnorth
07-11-2007, 08:31 AM
#2
I actually agree with him here, except for the AoE part, which is awesome for mages, good luck finding any class pumping out more aoe dps in a short amount of time. Seed of corruption is definitely nice, and fear>poly, but that has always been that way.




Mages are also the best classes for slowing melee players tbh, cone of cold is pain in the arse =). Counterspell > felhunter counterspell tbh. I have no problems at all bringing a mage with me into the arenas.

Oogie
07-11-2007, 08:41 AM
Plus ofcourse if you have the additional talents in Aracen to actually slow the person in manz aspects.

Trupiaczacha
07-11-2007, 09:37 AM
i see you ppl didnt even play in arenas whit good oponens.
Frostbolts. LOL if you have time to cast it you oponents sucks.

i say go back to Lac movies ... see how he play... i TBH didnt see Frostbolts... i did see instance spells... and i did see his mana problems...

well no point talk if you do not understend how mages work.

about pve i will not talk. first kill some end bosses than talk about stending in range and DPSing only.

Gnorth
07-11-2007, 09:50 AM
Frost bolt rank 1 slows them pretty good I've heard. Cone of cold (instant spell aswell) does the same thing.

Kinshara
07-11-2007, 09:51 AM
Lac does use frostbolts, but of course doesn't get the chance to use very many of them against decent opponents. And some of them will be rank 1 bolts, purely for a shorter cast time to get the slowing effect up quickly; damage is of course negligible for it.

Mages' inefficiency in pvp(at least in higher ranked arena) comes from the reason Trup states -- you're forced to use your instant casts quite often to do any damage, and they're not that cheap.

In any case, it seems 45 sec hypo has been reverted for the time being -- http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=2182.0

Gnorth
07-11-2007, 09:56 AM
If your not getting nuked in 5vs5, its possible to get in a few frostbolts atleast. Many times doesn't realize the damage done by a frost mage thats not getting interupted.

Another problem with that tho, is that your expected to sheep.
http://eu.wowarmory.com/team-info.xml?r=Nagrand&ts=5&t=BRUTAL+VOLDTEKT&select=BRUTAL+VOLDTEKT
Thats my arena team ( haven't updated yet). We won 7-1 yesterday, mostly because the other team didn't notice thrudeln at the start =)

Stim
07-11-2007, 10:06 AM
i say go back to Lac movies ... see how he play... i TBH didnt see Frostbolts... i did see instance spells... and i did see his mana problems...
go back and watch again. Frostbolt+Icelance on novaed targets = lol ownt.

Trupiaczacha
07-11-2007, 10:08 AM
i did see CoC mostly for slowing and DMG when they noved.

and mori poisens do the work too good. no need for wasting time on it.

sec if you talk about DMG deal in arena be mages in 5v5 frost mage do crap dmg. compering to other DPS classes that are in team... and will do always crap.

mages that are there in teams are for survability, sheep is long time crap in 5v5...
ofc it work when you have 1500 rating teams.

anyway pointles discusion whit ppl that do not exacly know why and whot they play.

if me team maneg to go up to almoste 1800 in 5v5 in PVE gear + PVE builds. and we did win whit some nice teams aka 2.1k ranked teams... pain games but geting +29 from 5v5 is funny even you play almost 30 mins 1 game ;p

go back and watch again. Frostbolt+Icelance on novaed targets = lol ownt.

thats exacly show why you play warrior... inte = 0

Flawless
07-11-2007, 10:14 AM
inte = 0 OH BITTER IRONY

Stim
07-11-2007, 10:14 AM
sec if you talk about DMG deal in arena be mages in 5v5 frost mage do crap dmg. compering to other DPS classes that are in team... and will do always crap.
That is exactly why I asked fire mage in my team spec frost. I don't want imba damage. I want nova, coc, cs, water elemental, icelance, iceblock and poly spam on debuffed targets. I want Control. Because damage is not everything.

Coldpwa
07-11-2007, 12:15 PM
.
Hypothermia's duration has been changed back from 45 seconds to 30 seconds.

Jethrotull
07-11-2007, 12:55 PM
k, let's all go back to the Afy thread then, not much drama to be found here now :)

Oogie
07-11-2007, 02:40 PM
Don't know what you lot are moaning about! This hits us hardest...

* Portal Spells: Portal spells to capital cities can no longer be cast in battlegrounds.

Source: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1422183073&sid=1

Kinshara
07-11-2007, 03:00 PM
I was always mildly amused at the number of people who would click on a mage portal at the start of AV.

Oogie
07-11-2007, 03:04 PM
Did it in AV a few weeks ago, lost 4 people I think.

Gnorth
07-11-2007, 04:17 PM
Its how to get rid of the noobs! Shame that its getting nerfed :(

Oogie
07-11-2007, 04:18 PM
What would have been double the fun, is if the portal bugged and sent them to our server's city had they been from a different server. :(

graverot
08-11-2007, 05:28 AM
More mage news - link (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2765962725&postId=28557790894&sid=1#33)

For those too lazy to read, it's planned for iceblock to be trainable, although probably not in 2.3

Oogie
08-11-2007, 08:15 AM
Some good news, means we get a point to spend elsewhere I guess, depending on what they do with the tree.

Stim
08-11-2007, 10:26 AM
At least no free pet. Kthx.

Trupiaczacha
08-11-2007, 11:05 AM
when i did look at this warlocks or priests QQ it make me ROFL.

Oogie
08-11-2007, 11:18 AM
Warlocks can piss off... wtf have they got to really moan about?

Vegelus
08-11-2007, 11:37 AM
Me thinks that this talent will be replaced with something that will decrease Hypothermia's timer, from 45s to 30? :P

Oogie
08-11-2007, 11:41 AM
Me thinks that this talent will be replaced with something that will decrease Hypothermia's timer, from 45s to 30? :P

lol I bloody hope not... that would be a pointless change. Excuse the pun.

Asmodeus
08-11-2007, 02:43 PM
Ice Block being trainable makes me wet in the pants

Faylin
08-11-2007, 02:51 PM
Iceblocking with wet pants sounds painful.

Oogie
08-11-2007, 03:00 PM
Like licking the inside of a freezer :D

Shadowfury
08-11-2007, 03:56 PM
Is there anything that doesnt make you wet in your pants Asmo?
;)

Oogie
08-11-2007, 04:01 PM
Is there anything that doesnt make you wet in your pants Asmo?
;)

Thordyn headbutting a hole in the floor.

Muffy
10-11-2007, 09:59 AM
Ice block will be trainable in the future, but the change might not be included in the 2.3 patch. Also, the change made to hypothermia in the latest PTR Build is confirmed. Mana issues in long fight will also be looked at.

stop your fucking whining.

Warlee
10-11-2007, 10:34 AM
Me thinks that this talent will be replaced with something that will decrease Hypothermia's timer, from 45s to 30? :P


it's already back at 30 seconds. Imo icelance should be put as 11th talent and coldsnap moved to 21st

Asura
10-11-2007, 12:06 PM
it's already back at 30 seconds. Imo icelance should be put as 11th talent and coldsnap moved to 21st

If anything icelance should damn well be removed. In most cases (read: the way most handle a mage lately / generic mage PvP), it just made a bloody mockery of the class. It also made sure (and still does) that any serious review mages might get will result in massive Q_Q by any other class.

Edit: And I've been saying this from day 1.
Edit2: And yes, I know mage PvP is definitely more than just sitting in a block, letting the pet spam some bolts and finishing off with some skill-lances. But then does the rest of the community realise that?

Trupiaczacha
10-11-2007, 12:20 PM
Edit2: And yes, I know mage PvP is definitely more than just sitting in a block, letting the pet spam some bolts and finishing off with some skill-lances. But then does the rest of the community realise that?


nope.

Vegelus
10-11-2007, 01:03 PM
it's already back at 30 seconds. Imo icelance should be put as 11th talent and coldsnap moved to 21st
You did not understand -.-
IB for every mage but with 45sec hypothermia. And new talent would be "Improved IB" with 30sec hypo. Just the way Blizz does such things :P.

Warlee
10-11-2007, 01:23 PM
Yes that's the thing. To be honest, most of people think mages are overpowered etc. Well, TBC is not about bgs and it never was.
It's about arena. In higher rated arena than 1800(to make sure both sides are properly geared), let's take 2v2. Mage is not using rather so called by comunity '1 shoot combo' frostbolt+ icelance (in most cases if u get critic from both it's 4k damage on resilenced ppl).
But yeah icelance is a bit annoying. For example in duels, when u don't care much about mana it's rly silly (most of mages I saw dueling don't use casting spell, doesn't matter which class they fight). Ice lance spam, not matter if target is freezed or free to move. Well, some mages call it ' skill' . But huh... duel.
Anyway Cold snap (2x elemental, ice block) make it in most cases ezz mode (myself i find it handy vs locks) for skillance mages cuz they don't need to cast anything totaly. But really, are mages so over powered? I find my class just fine in arena.
Why to put ice lance into talents? Well , doesn't matter really for us mages if we do pvp(and it will be called by other classes as a nerf), we need right now frost for survival and also, fire is mana intensive for pvp.
Why do I think Blizzard won't put icelance into talents as 11th talent? Icelance would be avaiable for low levels, means Blizzard would need to add additional ranks etc etc. I don't think they can be arsed to do that.


# Veg; Ah this way. Well. Would be rather from 30 secs to 15 hypothermia debuff. Than I like it. Or , just totaly remove hypothermia ! :P Sadly, not possible .

Stim
11-11-2007, 08:12 AM
That's the whole point of "mages are OP" Q_Q If you can win by just spamming Icelance... So, what kind of ownage you can produce with real skills?

Warlee
11-11-2007, 09:39 AM
You still don't get point. In arena spamming icelance will go nowhere.

Trupiaczacha
11-11-2007, 12:41 PM
i did tell it few days ego... for some reasons he do play warrior.

Warlee
11-11-2007, 03:12 PM
btw. as warrior
u can reflect ice lance whenever u're in frost nova so i don't see either a problem tbh.

Oogie
11-11-2007, 08:30 PM
Yes but I am guessing that with Spell Reflect, it doesnt reflect the whole damage because the mage isnt nova'd.

Warlee
11-11-2007, 10:21 PM
still pretends from being hit

Stim
12-11-2007, 07:55 AM
Spell reflect+bandage is somewhat useful but mages also happen to carry wands with them :S
Though spell reflect is fun antinoob tool. Like that berserk mage who tried to kill me yesterday when I was on 500 hp... So he dashed trough the whole horde zerg blinked got almost dead and wtfpawned self with Fireblast :D

Faylin
12-11-2007, 08:33 AM
To our friends in this thread, here is a little help on the use of articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_(grammar)

Stim
12-11-2007, 09:40 AM
nice)

Ailith
12-11-2007, 12:23 PM
Tbh spell reflect is hardly worth the rage cost when reflecting an ice-lance. Assuming you aren't already in defensive stance. The mage will take hardly any damage from it and you've probably lost a fair amount of rage due to stance switching (if you're arms, probably wasted the rage from second wind due to being nova'd).

Certainly, if I see spell reflect go up on a warr I will cast ice-lance just because I can take that hitting me. Frost mages will also have ice-barrier up (unless it's already been used up) or frost ward (depending on if I'm fire or frost and my current health, I will always put up the appropriate ward when fighting a warrior, in case of spell reflect).

But I dont see how a mage could win a duel against anyone by just spamming ice-lance? Unless their opponent has no cooldowns available or are completely outgeared.

Flawless
12-11-2007, 12:34 PM
Most mages I know use ice lance to use up spell reflect anyway

Coldpwa
12-11-2007, 01:12 PM
Warriors use Spell Reflect to AVOID, not DEAL damage. :rolleyes:

Đightrain
12-11-2007, 01:20 PM
Since reflecting a spell does dmg to the caster aswell as avoiding the dmg they're technically using it to do both.

Oogie
12-11-2007, 01:45 PM
Nightrain by Day...

CAPTAIN OBVIOUS BY NIGHT!

Coldpwa
12-11-2007, 02:03 PM
Since reflecting a spell does dmg to the caster aswell as avoiding the dmg they're technically using it to do both.
You're once again proving how much of an idiot you are.

Any competent player won't cast any spell while Spell Reflect is active, thus they're only avoiding damage, not dealing any.

Kinshara
12-11-2007, 02:17 PM
You're once again proving how much of an idiot you are.

Any competent player won't cast any spell while Spell Reflect is active, thus they're only avoiding damage, not dealing any.

While I agree that it's a defensive and not offensive move(aside from setup), I disagree on people not casting while it's up. Most good players I've seen will stop casting any primary damage spells (frostbolts, for the frost mage example), and clear the SR buff with an icelance or other cheap low damage instant so they can continue their attack. Either that or use an AoE spell so that it can't be reflected(CoC being the obvious one, despite the cost).

If you just wait it out, then the warrior gets a better chance to catch up to you and tear your head off.

Warlee
12-11-2007, 02:21 PM
sheep ftw.

Coldpwa
12-11-2007, 02:22 PM
The warrior's not going to do it at random times I would guess.

Warlee
12-11-2007, 02:24 PM
bh spell reflect is hardly worth the rage cost when reflecting an ice-lance.

YUS PLZ STAND AND DON'T MOVE WE WILL GIVE U RAGE, JUST STAY FAR AWAY AND LET US CAST, moron.

Đightrain
12-11-2007, 03:02 PM
You're once again proving how much of an idiot you are.

Any competent player won't cast any spell while Spell Reflect is active, thus they're only avoiding damage, not dealing any.

Well idno about anyone else but whenever i've used a reflect I always think YAY plz crit yourself.

Sure a competent player wont cast a spell while it's active (they wouldn't use imp either XP), but who said we're only talking about competent players? there's plenty of incompetent players and plenty of ppl make mistakes... I'm pretty sure that not every warrior uses it just to avoid dmg. Although clearly you're psychic and know exactly how every warrior thinks at the time they use it, therefore i'm wrong.

Back when the frost/fire/shadow reflectors were used they were used for reflecting fears, lolcoils, Pyro's and frost spells for slowdowns while flag running, clearly reflects aren't just for avoiding dmg no?

Coldpwa
12-11-2007, 03:29 PM
Yes, I, as a matter of fact, am psychic.

Đightrain
12-11-2007, 04:07 PM
Damnit =[ Then I take back everything i said =[

Oogie
12-11-2007, 04:15 PM
No need to apologise Night, he already knows :P

Ailith
13-11-2007, 10:25 AM
YUS PLZ STAND AND DON'T MOVE WE WILL GIVE U RAGE, JUST STAY FAR AWAY AND LET US CAST, moron.

Sure, you can use up all you rage at the cost of dealing 200 damage to my 8k+ health mage. If you're spell reflecting with the intent of reflecting an ice-lance you're the moron. Spell reflect something that's going to hurt them.

Yes, the caster may stop casting their pyro-blast and cast ice-lance instead (if you timed it wrong and they're any good they probably will). But you dont waste your rage with the intent of reflecting a single ice-lance.... moron...

Coldpwa
13-11-2007, 10:46 AM
...

Pyro-what?

Stim
13-11-2007, 10:51 AM
Reflecting Water Bolts deals no damage :(

Gaxy
13-11-2007, 11:06 AM
If you are frozen, it can safe you from alot of damage if you reflect a ice lance? :D

Oogie
13-11-2007, 11:18 AM
Gaxy, the arguement here atm is 'Why would a warrior reflect an ice lance?'

Maaikie
13-11-2007, 11:28 AM
To avoid being crit for 3k

Ailith
13-11-2007, 11:41 AM
You wont avoid it. Either the mage is gunna FB\IL in which case you want to reflect the FB (or at worst, get him to change spell and waste his casting time), if the mage is spamming ice-lance whilst you are nova'd he's just gunna fire another one at you after you've reflected it.

If a mage is spamming ice-lance in open-play with no other spell, reflecting is fairly pointless unless you're running around in defensive stance.... (all this, assuming a frost-mage).

Warlee
13-11-2007, 02:19 PM
Sure, you can use up all you rage at the cost of dealing 200 damage to my 8k+ health mage. If you're spell reflecting with the intent of reflecting an ice-lance you're the moron. Spell reflect something that's going to hurt them.

Yes, the caster may stop casting their pyro-blast and cast ice-lance instead (if you timed it wrong and they're any good they probably will). But you dont waste your rage with the intent of reflecting a single ice-lance.... moron...


You wont avoid it. Either the mage is gunna FB\IL in which case you want to reflect the FB (or at worst, get him to change spell and waste his casting time), if the mage is spamming ice-lance whilst you are nova'd he's just gunna fire another one at you after you've reflected it.

If a mage is spamming ice-lance in open-play with no other spell, reflecting is fairly pointless unless you're running around in defensive stance.... (all this, assuming a frost-mage).



All wrong. Warrior does spell reflect to save his health and to make mage use casting spells , not only nova/icelance spam. Why? Because mage has mana , you know spaming ice lance is pretty much expensive. Also, mage need to stop to cast a spell while warrior still moves in his direction. If you gonna continue in your arguing, better stop it and fight GOOD warrior to see how it works... I take a bet you will be oom before u kill Hearst, with elemental, or w/o.

Oogie
13-11-2007, 02:22 PM
If the mage had any brains, he wouldnt stand still long enough for a warrior to get close enough. He would burn off as many instants as he could to burst the warrior down.

So moving can be taken out of the equation imo.

(im not saying we DONT move, but moving can be discounted here)

Coldpwa
13-11-2007, 02:24 PM
You can't burst a decently geared warrior with a reasonable amount of active brain cells down.

Warlee
13-11-2007, 02:26 PM
@oggie
Yes. But still warrior gets closer. Also , remember, unless you have used insignia and warrior didn't get slow on you while intercept, u're slowed by him

and coldpwa speaks true in this case. Well, cannot burst alone that is.

Oogie
13-11-2007, 03:16 PM
I agree, but thats the whole point of burst damage, to make a big enough dent that allowing a warrior to get close enough for 1 or 2 swings, then get outta there asap. But we have strayed from the point of this.

Icelance and spell reflect, I haven't enough experience in this to be able to give my 2cents.

Ailith
13-11-2007, 05:18 PM
All wrong.

Then you need lessons in comprehension and reading tbh.


not only nova/icelance spam.

I know that, this is what I have been saying. The whole point of my post was saying using it for ice-lance is pointless or pretty much near to it.

Lets take my original post and your original reply:

tbh spell reflect is hardly worth the rage cost when reflecting an ice-lance.
YUS PLZ STAND AND DON'T MOVE WE WILL GIVE U RAGE, JUST STAY FAR AWAY AND LET US CAST, moron.

Where the fuck did I say don't use it at all? All I stated was that if your entire purpose is to reflect an ice-lance, it's hardly worth it.

As for the rest of your post, I cant be arsed to reply cause it just seems like you have problems understanding what you read.

Coldpwa
13-11-2007, 05:22 PM
Unless you're psychic like me, you cannot specifically time Spell Reflect for Ice Lance.

Warlee
13-11-2007, 05:49 PM
Yes you can. When u're in frost nova

Coldpwa
13-11-2007, 06:19 PM
Yes you can. When u're in frost nova

Introducing gcd.

Valoran
13-11-2007, 10:58 PM
Introducing gcd.
Spell reflect is off the GCD. (So assuming you're in battle or def, you can reflect aslong as you have the rage.)

Ask your imp before making silly comments.

Trupiaczacha
13-11-2007, 11:11 PM
Ask your imp before making silly comments.

the imp alrady did run away from him... you see why ;p

Flawless
14-11-2007, 06:07 PM
It hurts to be wrong (again.) eh?

Ajial
14-11-2007, 10:11 PM
Yea but if you throw random abuse it makes you less wrong. At least thats what i was always taught.

Oogie
15-11-2007, 12:39 PM
im getting this distinct feeling, Coldpwa feels victimised.

Warlee
15-11-2007, 01:14 PM
Sadly but in this case imp on forums would do better

Chopper
15-11-2007, 02:22 PM
Thank you for your very valuable contribution Captain Obvious.
My pleasure, citizen.

Here's another one for you:

You were wrong about GCD being a limiting factor on the use of Spell Reflection, and you were corrected by Valoran. Having been corrected on a public forum, you're incapable of responding either relevantly or with dignity.

Oogie
15-11-2007, 02:37 PM
My pleasure, citizen.

Here's another one for you:

You were wrong about GCD being a limiting factor on the use of Spell Reflection, and you were corrected by Valoran. Having been corrected on a public forum, you're incapable of responding either relevantly or with dignity.

BOOM!

Trupiaczacha
15-11-2007, 02:48 PM
BOOM!

oh you remaind me

"Boom! Shake The Room" - Dj Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince

http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=D8snaaMTiVM

:>

Coldpwa
15-11-2007, 02:56 PM
Sadly but in this case imp on forums would do better
Yeah, it'd do better than your piss-poor use of the English language moron.

Ajial
15-11-2007, 02:56 PM
Don't have a magnifying glass, yes the standards just got lowered.

"Well my dad".. Ok maybe not quite huh? :P

Coldpwa
15-11-2007, 02:58 PM
oh you remaind me

"Boom! Shake The Room" - Dj Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince

http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=D8snaaMTiVM

:>
I'm glad to see your musical taste matches your intelligence a hundred percent, retard.

Coldpwa
15-11-2007, 03:01 PM
\o/
:D

Coldpwa
15-11-2007, 03:06 PM
My pleasure, citizen.

Here's another one for you:

You were wrong about GCD being a limiting factor on the use of Spell Reflection, and you were corrected by Valoran. Having been corrected on a public forum, you're incapable of responding either relevantly or with dignity.
Unfortunately your contribution in this case will have to be disregarded. You wouldn't manage to use Spell Reflect anyway, being a clicker and all!

Gumdrops
15-11-2007, 03:12 PM
This stops now.