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Chopper
11-10-2007, 10:09 PM
Current Warrior PTR Notes. Some buffs, some nerfs, some fixes and some WTF. There'll be a more than just a few raised eyebrows, I expect...

* Charge will work more often when targets are up against unpathable areas like walls and poles.
* Defiance (Protection) now also grants 2/4/6 weapon expertise.
* Devastate (Protection) now combines the effects of Sunder Armor into its effect. It is also now affected by all talents and items that affect Sunder Armor.
* Disarm is now subject to diminishing returns in PvP.
* Improved Berserker Stance (Fury) now also reduces all threat caused while in Berserker Stance by 2/4/6/8/10%
* Improved Intercept and Weapon Mastery have swapped locations in the talent trees.
* Intervene will no longer place you in combat.
* Hamstring now has a 10 second duration when used on PvP targets.
* Mace Specialization (Arms) now has a reduced chance to occur but generates 7 rage instead of 6.
* Pummel: Interrupting a channeled spell with this ability will now always properly prevent casting spells from the same spell school for 4 sec.
* Shield Bash: Interrupting a channeled spell with this ability will now always properly prevent casting spells from the same spell school for 6 sec.
* Shield Slam (Protection) now always tries to dispel one Magic effect on the target.
* Sweeping Strikes and Deathwish have swapped locations in the talent trees.
* Sweeping Strikes (Fury) now lasts 10 seconds and affects your next 10 swings.
* Tactical Mastery: This talent also now grants greatly increased threat from Mortal Strike and Bloodthirst when in Defensive Stance.
* Weapon Mastery (Arms) now reduces duration of Disarm effects against you by 25/50% rather than giving you a 50% chance to avoid or full immunity to Disarm effects.
* Whirlwind: This ability now strikes with both weapons when a Warrior is dual-wielding.

Source: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html

Gwynin
11-10-2007, 10:47 PM
* Sweeping Strikes and Deathwish have swapped locations in the talent trees.
* Sweeping Strikes (Fury) now lasts 10 seconds and affects your next 10 swings.


Thats the 'WTF?' part for me, I dont see why I wanna use SS in pve tbh (mages dont like you if you break their sheep Ive heard).

Evilstein
12-10-2007, 05:17 AM
Very odd indeed.

Seems like one of those "lore-fixes", putting a bit more berserker feeling to berserker stance, maybe?

Elyhaym
12-10-2007, 05:28 AM
Hmm..
Time to revise specs it seems

Kzuhl
12-10-2007, 05:37 AM
Well, I dunno, but Death Wish sounded pretty fucking berserker to me. Anyway, why did they move TM into prot tree again? Oh, that's right, so warriors couldn't get Death Wish when going deep into the Arms tree. Not that anyone would have wanted to go deep into arms with DW + Imp. Intercept being better than any combination of talents down there. And Sweeping Strikes kinda feels like it's Blade Flurry's retarded little brother now. Death Wish definitely had it's place in PvE, too.

That said, what do you guys think about PvP specs if those changes go live? I was pretty sure I was going to keep Weapon Halfassery, because 50% disarm duration reduction was still better than 0%. And Sweeping Strikes was pretty situational, but very good in those situations. Do we still want those talents? And, assuming we don't. Do we still need/want Enrage? Can we get more profit from maxing out 2h mastery and putting points into imp. MS?

Faylin
12-10-2007, 06:49 AM
Well, I dunno, but Death Wish sounded pretty fucking berserker to me.

Yeh, that's the odd bit. Sweeping Strikes has all to do with mastering weapons, and deathwish is beserking to the max.

My guess is they want to have one dedicated PvP tree, and also give warriors some more freedom in choosing their secondary tree.

Stim
12-10-2007, 06:57 AM
WTF?!
I mean like WTF?!
And 10 seconds Hamstring?!

Evilstein
12-10-2007, 07:26 AM
Well, the main reason for a PvP:er to go deep (pardon the expression) into Fury was to get Deathwish so I guess we're gonna see a lot more 41 Arms-builds if this goes live...

thurlog
12-10-2007, 07:32 AM
10% threat reduction sounds nice to me

Stim
12-10-2007, 07:43 AM
Well, the main reason for a PvP:er to go deep (pardon the expression) into Fury was to get Deathwish so I guess we're gonna see a lot more 41 Arms-builds if this goes live...

Not unless MS is 41 pt talent.
And I need slow Off-hand now :< Shaman-warrior loot wars inc...
Also: http://www.filecabin.com/photos/view.php?mode=gallery&g=6550&photo=1

Chopper
12-10-2007, 07:43 AM
Well, the main reason for a PvP:er to go deep (pardon the expression) into Fury was to get Deathwish so I guess we're gonna see a lot more 41 Arms-builds if this goes live...
That's possible, but I'm not so sure myself.

A equivalent to the current 3x/2x/x build will still be possible. The "sweeping whirlwind" move will work slightly differently, but the build will be more-or-less the same.

Sweeping Strikes will still be a useful talent, and is probably one that I personally would choose over Endless Rage.

Taurusos
12-10-2007, 07:44 AM
You guys do see that the change of sweeping goes pretty much hand in hand with the added threat effect of BT/MS in def stance when talented TM right?

Blizzard knows that fury is the popular dps spec for warrior, hence wanting to add tanking viability. Off tanks handling adds etc with sweeping sounds right about hot to me together with challenging shout.

Im not saying that they did the right thing with this move, but have in mind that keeping DeathW which doesnt help tanking whatsoever (when dps specced and asked to OT) since it only adds to the DPS incoming at you, while Sweeping obviously will generate you aggro on a multitarget situation.

If these changes go through, a dps warrior with somewhat good tanking gear for the content he is in, will really come closer to druids, in the aspect of multmobtanking and being able to dish out more dps and hold aggro better than before these changes.

I have a feeling that this isnt the last changes we will see in the fury/arms tree.

Count on imp intercept being moved also, think these are the minor steps before class changes that might occur and be rebalanced for WotLK.

/Tau

Gwynin
12-10-2007, 07:49 AM
I allready have no problem tanking single target mobs in raids, and I dont see how having to go into zerker stance and activate SS is gonna help much tbh...

They should switch Enrage to arms instead, only reason we take that for pve is to get flurry anyways....

Loosing deathwish and gaining SS just seems so fucking moronic....


And if I wanted to tank I would spec more into prot

Taurusos
12-10-2007, 07:52 AM
You cant comment on having to go into zerk stance until confirmed that its been moved from BS to Zerkstance.

Since the notes only say:

Sweeping Strikes and Deathwish have swapped locations in the talent trees.

And if SS is still a battlestance talent, u can still BT for threat while in battle stance and use BR for rage gen.

/Tau

Stim
12-10-2007, 07:53 AM
PVP GO!
http://talents.utimer.ppvh.eu/?p=vt&i=40996&b=705c50213325100230012d505010402501j3u

Gwynin
12-10-2007, 08:01 AM
Update: With Sweeping Strikes moving position, it will also be usable in Berserker Stance as well as Battle Stance.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2288092512&pageNo=1&sid=1#1


After he double checked he found out that they are gonna work in both zerker and battle stance
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2288092512&pageNo=19&sid=1#367



I still dont want SS tho and if they wanna force it on us they can bloody hell go on and take Enrage instead of DW

Tsarina
12-10-2007, 08:04 AM
PVP GO!
http://talents.utimer.ppvh.eu/?p=vt&i=40996&b=705c50213325100230012d505010402501j3uIn other words, these changes are np for arms warriors. For people maximizing PvE DPS, 17/44 in other words, there's not much good in 2.3.

And I need slow Off-hand now :< Shaman-warrior loot wars inc...
Also: http://www.filecabin.com/photos/view.php?mode=gallery&g=6550&photo=1When did warriors not need slow OH? Finally it's obvious to everyone.

The WW buff is nice, but doesn't make up for the DW nerf. At least I haven't seen any (reasonable) math proving otherwise yet.

The hardest hit is still the weapon specialization racial nerf. Orcs and humans will cry a lot over this. I've seen a lot of warrior nerfs that made me think about rerolling, but this is the worst so far. And (afair) the only nerf that made me complain on a forum.

Taurusos
12-10-2007, 08:10 AM
Well, then its confirmed that your point of having to go into zerk stance (and recieve more damage) was moot.

Im on your side though, still trying to crunch numbers to see if there is hope in the end of the tunnel that our dps isnt nerfed in fury but...

How isnt it?

What good does Sweeps do for hitting a freaking boss that I want us to kill?

Combining Death wish together with bloodlust...no longer possible.

A dualwielder can prolly dish out more damage and include HS more into their rotation due to their imp zerk stance but still, as I see it, we lost dps, nothing as good as having leo trinket + bm trinket proc at once and activate DW.

Im puzzles, they give us threat decrease but hit our dps with a nerfbat. At the same time make the life of a dps warrior easier tankingwise, but they are going overboard, as the main role of a dps is just that, dps, and shouldnt be neglected for added viability as offtank.

Guess, good and bad changes, depending on how you look at it, from what angle.

But goes for show that they are leaning to make the warrior even more of a hybrid with adding more tanking power while in a dps spec.

/Tau

Stim
12-10-2007, 08:18 AM
Hm... But 10% threat decrease is a great help on threat sensitive fight. Thinks it pretty equals for DW and weapons specializations. And WW is pretty nice too. Additional crit proc and damage each 8 seconds. Ofc Recklessness DW Execute spam will be in the past :<

Lol: Whirlwind>Stormstrike Har Har.

P.S. They removed racial bonus because Weapon Expertise will be awesome stat in 2.3 Each point reduces target's avoidance for 0.25% afaik

Manidim
12-10-2007, 08:29 AM
They could've at least added some sort of haste increase to SS while they were at it :/

Tsarina
12-10-2007, 08:38 AM
Haste increase for 10 seconds every 30 seconds? I don't think so. I like the idea, though.

Chou
12-10-2007, 08:49 AM
i think they wanted SS to work like blade fury for rogues, but a little worse because it doesnt add any haste. yes tau you are right, losing DW and getting 10% threat reduce in a 17/44 spec will drop your aggro nicely, cause you even lose dps. but i was wondering another thing. sweeping needs combat stance to be activated. so we prolly will need to get tactical mastery to make it work better to not lose many rage while swapping combat/berz. more stance dance, less dps. they want us to do more nervous playing

Stim
12-10-2007, 08:55 AM
SS will be usable in Zerk stance too.

Kinshara
12-10-2007, 08:56 AM
i think they wanted SS to work like blade fury for rogues, but a little worse because it doesnt add any haste. yes tau you are right, losing DW and getting 10% threat reduce in a 17/44 spec will drop your aggro nicely, cause you even lose dps. but i was wondering another thing. sweeping needs combat stance to be activated. so we prolly will need to get tactical mastery to make it work better to not lose many rage while swapping combat/berz. more stance dance, less dps. they want us to do more nervous playing

As mentioned previously in the thread, SS will be usable in both battle and zerker stances.

Chou
12-10-2007, 09:06 AM
hehe ok. i thought i did read all the posts. now it sounds more useful for me.

we can just hope they will save up from spending 50 gold for a respec, who knows

Iyachtu
12-10-2007, 09:19 AM
Swapping DW and SS is retarded, just, plain, retarded.

Gwynin
12-10-2007, 09:20 AM
Im 17/44 fury spec so they will have to undo my spec or give me a free respec, cos due to the changes my spec will be "invalid" at the moment. :)

Will have to test this on PTR asap, on paper it still sounds like a shitty change for fury

Chopper
12-10-2007, 09:23 AM
Talent points are usually refunded with a Talent restructure, so you should get that free respec.

Iyachtu
12-10-2007, 09:24 AM
For a long time it seemed like the continued warrior nerfs where over, but now it seems they've re-started the 'make fury useless' crusade again.

Kinshara
12-10-2007, 09:45 AM
For a long time it seemed like the continued warrior nerfs where over, but now it seems they've re-started the 'make fury useless' crusade again.

Seems more like "make fury blatantly pve-only" to me, though I guess if you're an old school pvp-fury type it might seem that way.

(Yes, I understand that the dps will likely be reduced slightly. I still figure it won't be a useless spec in raids.)

Chopper
12-10-2007, 09:48 AM
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2288042225&sid=1#5

Notice anything different?

Iyachtu
12-10-2007, 09:51 AM
Deathwish change not listed anymore ?

Gwynin
12-10-2007, 09:52 AM
Seems more like "make fury blatantly pve-only" to me, though I guess if you're an old school pvp-fury type it might seem that way.

(Yes, I understand that the dps will likely be reduced slightly. I still figure it won't be a useless spec in raids.)



Putting SS into fury doesnt seem very pve minded tho, it just seem retarded



EDIT, oh they revoked the change it seems?

Tsarina
12-10-2007, 09:57 AM
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2288042225&sid=1#5

Notice anything different?
Yes. And it's fairly old. However:

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1153027695&sid=1

Chopper
12-10-2007, 10:07 AM
Ah, balls. 14 hours is pretty old in terms of PTR notes. It was an omission on Hortus' part then, I guess.

Still a crazy-ass change though, imo.

Whilst Arms, a tree dedicated to mastery of weapons, is arguably not the more logical place for Sweeping Strikes, Fury, a tree dedicated to angrily beating the crap out of your enemy, certainly is the more logical home for Deathwish.

Gwynin
12-10-2007, 10:10 AM
I was happy for those few seconds from chop's post to Tsarina's..... :(

Evilstein
12-10-2007, 10:35 AM
Well, it's not like a Fury nerf wasn't somewhat expected, though.

Beating Rogues at their own game was a bit too much. :D

Stim
12-10-2007, 10:47 AM
So it's swapped or what -.- ?

Iyachtu
12-10-2007, 10:47 AM
Rogues where beating us at dps ever since the flurry nerf, it's pretty balanced as it is, changing places with SS / DW is just plain retarded, and it 'will' mean a nerf to single target dps (bosses).

And i dont get the argument really that rogues should just be better at dps by default, they dont sacrifice as much by speccing and gearing for pve dps as a fury warrior does.
By speccing 17/44 you are going for maximized pve dps, so why shouldnt we be able to compete with rogues for dmg?

Chopper
12-10-2007, 10:50 AM
So it's swapped or what -.- ?

At this time, the more up-to-date blue post and the player-posters with PTR exposure say it's swapped.

Hearst
12-10-2007, 11:18 AM
Now just swap Tact Mastery with Imp Thunderclap and remove Imp Rend and you got crap free talent trees.

Kinshara
12-10-2007, 11:22 AM
Rogues where beating us at dps ever since the flurry nerf, it's pretty balanced as it is, changing places with SS / DW is just plain retarded, and it 'will' mean a nerf to single target dps (bosses).

And i dont get the argument really that rogues should just be better at dps by default, they dont sacrifice as much by speccing and gearing for pve dps as a fury warrior does.
By speccing 17/44 you are going for maximized pve dps, so why shouldnt we be able to compete with rogues for dmg?

Because you can offtank and provide buffs to your group/debuffs on a target? Rogues basically have zero unique utility outside of a couple fights where wound poison is used.

Iyachtu
12-10-2007, 11:25 AM
Oh yes, lots of buffs and debuffs we have.

Kinshara
12-10-2007, 11:31 AM
Oh yes, lots of buffs and debuffs we have.

You do have plenty of debuffs, actually, but it's still far better than zero. (I know that some aren't useful, but demo shout/tclap/battle shout are frequently used, especially when the tank isn't a warrior) Fix the lack of utility, and it's fine for all melee to be on (relatively) equal dps footing.

Stim
12-10-2007, 12:09 PM
Fury warriors don't go to raids because they can TC, BS or DS. Any warrior can do this. See? So having these abilities isn't justification for being subpar dps to rogues as pure dps spec (pure means major failure in other class aspects such as PvP or serious tanking). Warriors don't spec 17/44 to say: LOOK I CAN ALSO TNAK SUM TRASH MOBZ! They say: LOOK I CAN ALSO TNAK SUM TRASH MOBZ! to get their raid spot, opposed by rogues who still can dps better and don't pull aggro.

Kinshara
12-10-2007, 12:26 PM
They say: LOOK I CAN ALSO TNAK SUM TRASH MOBZ! to get their raid spot, opposed by rogues who still can dps better and don't pull aggro.

That's exactly what I'm saying. You offer extra utility beyond just dps. Rogues don't. You'll be dpsing most of the time, and occasionally offtanking; you'll also provide buffs/debuffs when needed.

(Put it this way: if the devs gave rogues the option to stay as they are, or have warriors/shammies/etc on par with their damage but also have unique useful abilities to bring to the raid, every single rogue I know would choose the latter option.)

Edit the second: Flip your comment around, if their dps were equal. Rogue applies to raid, and says "I can dps just as well as a warrior! And, err... that's it."

Stim
12-10-2007, 12:38 PM
No, if dps were equal rogue could still avoid many negative effects through their abilities and completely wipe threat on demand >_> Thus resulting in being more effective dpser overall.

Kinshara
12-10-2007, 12:41 PM
No, if dps were equal rogue could still avoid many negative effects trough their abilities and completely wipe threat on demand >_> Thus resulting in being more effective dpser overall.

No, they'd just be ignored. Seriously.

Stim
12-10-2007, 01:02 PM
No, they'd just be ignored. Seriously.
Following the line of undisprovable arguments I say:
nowai

Iyachtu
12-10-2007, 04:09 PM
screwing with the talent tress in this particular way is bullshit, when there's so many other things that could have made the warrior class better / more enjoyable.
Like removing useless stuff nobody ever takes : imp rend.
Or detaching Enrage from flurry, cuz if you are ever critted in pve that usually means you are dead anyway.

But no, lets swap places with sweeping strikes and deathwish that makes alot more sense.

Senex
12-10-2007, 05:09 PM
At least you're still better than Retadins.

Iyachtu
12-10-2007, 05:19 PM
Yeah, for now.

Gwynin
12-10-2007, 11:40 PM
I think we should put money together for a drug test of the devs, cos no way they can be clean when making this change tbh

Flawless
13-10-2007, 11:55 AM
it basically just seperates each table into pvp/dps/tanking. There's no middle ground.

Iyachtu
13-10-2007, 01:04 PM
Yeah, they've been saying they wanted to "encourage" warriors to step away from "coockie cutter" builds.
But fucking up the talent tree's isnt encouragement, it's coercion.
Wonder what the point of the blue sticky post was asking about what talents warriors considered key to their class, really was? What's apperent is they could care less about what the players want.

miganto
13-10-2007, 10:50 PM
Maybe they have a reason you/we just don't understand as of yet?

Possibly there are more changes to come, and this 'mess around' might become more clear.

Flawless
13-10-2007, 11:06 PM
I have nothing against some of the changes, at the end of the day the talent tree have become cookie cuter.

DPS goes fury. PvP goes Arms. Tanking goes prot.

None of the offtanking crap for arms as of yet.

Deathwish was a great talent for that on demand nuking thats called upon. In PvE dps there is no need for Sweeping strikes to be moved at all.

Gwynin
14-10-2007, 02:57 AM
If they try to make arms pvp only and fury pve only, it just doesnt make any sense to give use Sweeping strikes and letting us keep Enrage... Both are fucking retarded and bloody fucking useless in pve....


I still want that fucking drug test of those devs

pain
18-10-2007, 02:08 PM
Fury is rendered even more useless in pvp than it was before, woot.



It would make more sense if they left death wish in fury, the talent screams fury after all, and in addition give us blood frenzy instead of improved slam.

The new weapon mastery is quite cool though, negating 4% dodge isn't that bad for a two pointer.

Flawless
18-10-2007, 02:32 PM
If you used fury for pvp you fucking sucked.

pain
18-10-2007, 02:38 PM
that's not the point, oh bitter one.

Flawless
18-10-2007, 02:49 PM
no actually it is, fury in pvp worked at level 60 with epics. Its never worked since, and bitter? I don't pvp on my warrior.

Fury warriors are wasted, they bring nothing to pvp, and your damage can be out healed.

Gwynin
18-10-2007, 03:07 PM
Question is, do fury warriors want to pvp?

In most cases the answer will be 'no!' cos we are fury for pve

pain
18-10-2007, 03:08 PM
While I agree with your points, I still don't cherish the thought of ''denying'' them pvp to a certain extent by taking away death wish.
Sure, the viability of fury in pvp is lacking at best, but after tbc popped, talent trees are looking more and more like pvp/pve/pve(tank).


Either way, changes I'd like to see:
-Death wish trainable/from a level 30 or 40 quest
-Sweeping strikes unlinked to Bloodthirst
-Enrage unlinked to Flurry
-Improved Slam swapped with Blood Frenzy
Oh yeah, and I want my 30% flurry back.

Fury is frustrating for pvp, been there, done that, and if I ever return it's with a fat 2h, arms specced.

Kinshara
18-10-2007, 03:12 PM
Question is, do fury warriors want to pvp?

In most cases the answer will be 'no!' cos we are fury for pve

Actually quite a few of them do, they just have to respec back and forth. Which isn't unique, but many other classes' pve specs are capable of being "good enough" for some light pvp for fun, if not as good as a full pvp spec.

Stim
19-10-2007, 07:30 AM
fury.... pvp... never again :<

Chou
19-10-2007, 08:40 AM
just respecced fury to try in some battlegrounds. it works good, its a bit
weaker than arms i agree, but works. you just miss MS to kill those damn healers, but with imp. slam and imp. whirlwind its np. ( just wish it will work as good with the changes after the patch )

i agree, i dont think it will work good in arenas without the MS debuff, but meh. gotta try

fury doesnt suck at all at 70, Grob. In battlegrounds, im sure you would do good with a fury spec and your big 2 hander.

and btw, i was arms dps for a while in heroics and raids, for kara and GL, and it works quite good also.

the changes are a bit odd but im sure we will adapt to them nicely

warriors ftw

-Chou-

Iyachtu
19-10-2007, 09:43 AM
Thing is, "good enough" just isnt viable for pvp, in my opinion.
PvP as fury is a waste of time, and will be even more so after the patch , no deathwish, no imp intercept (altho this is a moot point since a pve build does not incorporate this talent).

But you can clearly see the intention of blizzard desingers, they 'want' to pigeonhole you into speccing for specific porpouses. Fury for pve , Arms for PvP, and Protection for tanking(pve).

These changes are strange and feels more like a deliberate 'nerf' to fury dps than an actuall balance of talents.
Another swift kick in the balls delivered by blizzard with love.
Dedicated warriors will be forced to adapt , once again.
But also i think more people will loose intrest in the class seing how it's constantly being changed and often to the worse.

Bring on the next generation of soul link warlocks.

Gwynin
19-10-2007, 09:50 AM
Blizzard is trying to make this a mishmash of what chars can do, soon every class will be able to heal/dps/tank in the name of "balance"

Stim
19-10-2007, 12:15 PM
Iyacht stop being such a drama queen. When I first read patch notes I was outraged! Liek WTF!!1? Then, I was calculating some new stuff. Later, I found myself being curious to see how it will really work in given environment. Constant changes (even if they're nerfs) are what makes that games interesting. Imagine if we still had 220% MS with 40% Enrage unchanged for over 2 years... Kingdom of boredom ftl.
In the end we will adapt, get some nasty purplez and kick the shit out of jolly Death Knight hordes.
(just don't spec fury yet :P)

Flawless
19-10-2007, 12:37 PM
discussing BG's as pvp now a day is pointless, at the minute at least.

Gwynin
19-10-2007, 02:17 PM
Change isnt the biggest problem, the main problem is the lack of logic in their changes.

Moving a talent from fury which is usefull in both pvp and pve and replacing it with a totally useless talent (in pve terms) is totally retarded, and forcing us to take it in order to get deeper into fury doesnt help at all. And why do they let us keep enrage which also is totally useless for pve, and at the same time a 'must have' in order to get flurry ?

Iyachtu
19-10-2007, 03:13 PM
discussing BG's as pvp now a day is pointless, at the minute at least.

Aye, because the whole concept of pvp is being balanced around arena.

Exting
19-10-2007, 03:47 PM
to be fair nobody cares about warriors.

Iyachtu
19-10-2007, 05:00 PM
Exept maybe warriors.

Stim
22-10-2007, 07:01 AM
Nerf MS! whiners care, that's for sure.

pain
22-10-2007, 04:45 PM
always bind ms to the q button.

Iyachtu
22-10-2007, 10:01 PM
har har har

Ogrosh
23-10-2007, 11:44 AM
always bind ms to the q button.

I have! :D

Senex
31-10-2007, 11:51 AM
always bind ms to the q button.
Gives a whole new meaning to "QQ more", that's for sure.

Stim
01-11-2007, 08:18 AM
I got WW bound to q. Do I win a cookie?

Ailith
01-11-2007, 09:46 AM
MS is bound to V on mine :p

Taurusos
01-11-2007, 10:04 AM
Must find slow offhand.

Hmmmm

/Tau

thurlog
01-11-2007, 03:07 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filter=qu=4:6;sl=23:21:22:13;ub=1;cr=32:36;crs=1:1 ;crv=100:1.50#0-4+1

;-)

Faylin
01-11-2007, 03:16 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filter=qu=4:6;sl=23:21:22:13;ub=1;cr=32:36;crs=1:1 ;crv=100:1.50#0-4+1

;-)

If you look closer to that list you'll see there's actually only 4 suitable PvE options, unless you play arena (not sure why you included 1.8 speed daggers), all of which are beyond his current level of progress. (They're either from Kael or T6 content)

So easier said then done.

thurlog
01-11-2007, 03:28 PM
kk.. ofcourse it's realisticly to include only the Vashj and (hopefully soon) Kael'thas drop, but it's nice to know what to look for when 2.3 comes out, maybe by that time he's running around in MH. (same goes for me)

i included daggers because with the expertise-change it won't make a difference anymore what you wield.


there's also 1 mainhand in the list, shouldn't be there :p

Taurusos
01-11-2007, 03:52 PM
Tnx for the list thurlog :)

/Tau

Tsarina
01-11-2007, 04:59 PM
i included daggers because with the expertise-change it won't make a difference anymore what you wield.

lol

Chopper
01-11-2007, 07:24 PM
Daggers have a lower multiplier for instant attacks (source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Instant_Melee_Attacks) and although not a concern to Tau, human/orc racials will still make a difference (1% crit with racial weapon of choice).

Kinshara
01-11-2007, 08:54 PM
There's also a concern about the interaction of flurry charges with slow MH/fast OH. You don't have it as bad as enhancement shamans with their WF cooldown weirdness, but it does make some difference in dps.

Senex
01-11-2007, 09:19 PM
I got WW bound to q. Do I win a cookie?
Yes.

http://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/img/cookie-monster.jpg

Tsarina
02-11-2007, 12:36 AM
Daggers have a lower multiplier for instant attacks (source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Instant_Melee_Attacks)
I still think "lol" was a better reply.
and although not a concern to Tau, human/orc racials will still make a difference (1% crit with racial weapon of choice).
1% crit is nice, so all else being equal(ish), I'll still go for axes. But probably less rigidly than I have til now. I still have 1 in every weapon skill except 1 and 2H axes and will keep it that way as long as I can. It will be a hard blow for the RPer in me when I pick up a sword. Could have been a Warglaive last week if not the fag and the smygbög were there.

Stim
02-11-2007, 07:40 AM
Warglaive drop> Fel-Steel helm drop tbh.
Only 1 item in list tops s3 weapon dps :O

thurlog
02-11-2007, 07:50 AM
Daggers have a lower multiplier for instant attacks (source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Instant_Melee_Attacks) and although not a concern to Tau, human/orc racials will still make a difference (1% crit with racial weapon of choice).

The following instant attack abilities use this calculation: Sinister Strike, Ambush,
Backstab, Whirlwind, Mortal Strike, and Overpower

nope.. no skills i use...

Kinshara
02-11-2007, 08:20 AM
nope.. no skills i use...

So you don't use whirlwind when dpsing? Or are you prot spec?

Taurusos
02-11-2007, 09:12 AM
Thur, why would you not use WW when enough rage and BT on cd and rampage already kept up?

You easily afford having a loaded HS and instant WW in your fury dps rotation if you watch your CDs and GCDs.

Specially when and if specced imp WW (not saying its optimal ofc)

/Tau

Stim
02-11-2007, 09:44 AM
I bet it's autoattack and BT spam.
madskillz!

Manidim
02-11-2007, 10:44 AM
1% crit is nice, so all else being equal(ish), I'll still go for axes. But probably less rigidly than I have til now. I still have 1 in every weapon skill except 1 and 2H axes and will keep it that way as long as I can. It will be a hard blow for the RPer in me when I pick up a sword. Could have been a Warglaive last week if not the fag and the smygbög were there.

hahahah (vem är smygbögen?) :D

thurlog
02-11-2007, 12:44 PM
I bet it's autoattack and BT spam.
madskillz!

;)

But honestly, i've been using Malchazeer untill yesterday simply because nothing better dropped for me (or i got outbid by those damn sword-rogues :p ). And with a dagger there is no need / use for WW in your rotation so i indeed got used to spam BT and HS.

Flawless
02-11-2007, 01:19 PM
WW is a key part of THE DPS rotation...

Mistoria
02-11-2007, 02:00 PM
;)

But honestly, i've been using Malchazeer untill yesterday simply because nothing better dropped for me (or i got outbid by those damn sword-rogues :p ). And with a dagger there is no need / use for WW in your rotation so i indeed got used to spam BT and HS.

aye sword rogues /doom :p

you not have even more aggro problems with HS?

Kinshara
02-11-2007, 03:49 PM
;)

But honestly, i've been using Malchazeer untill yesterday simply because nothing better dropped for me (or i got outbid by those damn sword-rogues :p ). And with a dagger there is no need / use for WW in your rotation so i indeed got used to spam BT and HS.

Erm... I'd advise using WW in rotation with BT. HS isn't actually an additional strike, it just converts an existing autoattack white hit into a special (so it can't glance). WW is an extra instant, and thus an additional hit beyond autoattack. Not using it means your dps will be lower.

Mistoria
02-11-2007, 11:10 PM
btw, for fury specs is it worth taking 2/2 or 1/2 imp WW? from what i've seen, it seems like 2/2 imp WW just messes up with cycles so no real benefit

Kinshara
02-11-2007, 11:50 PM
btw, for fury specs is it worth taking 2/2 or 1/2 imp WW? from what i've seen, it seems like 2/2 imp WW just messes up with cycles so no real benefit

Most of the theorycraft threads I've seen suggest 1 point is best.

Valoran
03-11-2007, 02:13 AM
btw, for fury specs is it worth taking 2/2 or 1/2 imp WW? from what i've seen, it seems like 2/2 imp WW just messes up with cycles so no real benefit
One point perfectly aligns the BT/WW cooldowns, so that they're never both up at the same time. Theoretically.

Chopper
03-11-2007, 11:55 AM
This also works out well in a standard 17/44 build, as after you've maxed all the obvious Fury talents, you have 1 point left over, and that goes quite nicely into 1/2 imp ww.

Valoran
03-11-2007, 02:52 PM
Challenging Shout: The chance for this ability to land successfully on its targets is now increased by hit rating.
Taunt: The chance for this ability to land successfully on its target is now increased by hit rating.\o/

Flawless
03-11-2007, 03:16 PM
Whut... does this mean that taunt resisted is going to become a lesser excuse? I mean, what if I wanted to get a mage killed ;(

Mistoria
03-11-2007, 03:30 PM
Whut... does this mean that taunt resisted is going to become a lesser excuse? I mean, what if I wanted to get a mage killed ;(

you are still left with possible excuses such as: lag-spike, cat on keyboard, aurora borealis etc... :p

Valoran
03-11-2007, 04:24 PM
Whut... does this mean that taunt resisted is going to become a lesser excuse? I mean, what if I wanted to get a mage killed ;(Resists are still possible!

Flawless
03-11-2007, 07:42 PM
aurora borealis etc... Hmmm, I am using this. Sorry guys Aurora Borealis appeared over my head.

Senex
03-11-2007, 11:41 PM
Challenging Shout: The chance for this ability to land successfully on its targets is now increased by hit rating.
Taunt: The chance for this ability to land successfully on its target is now increased by hit rating.
Finally, warriors will have no excuse for ninjaing spellhit gear.

Alverion
04-11-2007, 12:21 AM
Thunderclap, it's mad AE TPS

Gwynin
04-11-2007, 12:39 AM
Whut... does this mean that taunt resisted is going to become a lesser excuse? I mean, what if I wanted to get a mage killed ;(


I recommend making deals with a hunter in order to have some MD 'accidents'

Stim
06-11-2007, 09:31 AM
Hmmm, I am using this. Sorry guys Aurora Borealis appeared over my head.

I lol'ed.

Jarelan
06-11-2007, 11:02 AM
Hmmm, I am using this. Sorry guys Aurora Borealis appeared over my head.

Aurora Borealis, at this time, in this place, located entirely in you kitchen?

Yes.

Can I see it?

...No...


Ah Simpsons ftw.

Vegelus
06-11-2007, 12:35 PM
I recommend making deals with a hunter in order to have some MD 'accidents'

Those accidents are the best ones.
Sadly, some people tend to use Big Brother (or how that addon was named) :(.

Senex
07-11-2007, 01:22 PM
The Blizzard taketh, and the Blizzard giveth back:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2007/october/racialchange.jpg

Flawless
07-11-2007, 01:54 PM
expertise is nice

Mistoria
07-11-2007, 05:59 PM
humans rejoice :)

Stim
07-11-2007, 08:01 PM
The Blizzard taketh, and the Blizzard giveth back:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2007/october/racialchange.jpg

Owls are not what they seem...