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Iyachtu
05-10-2007, 08:29 AM
Patch 2.3: Explanations on Tactical Mastery Change (Source)

I look at it like this: we took a talent that was very desirable to Fury and Arms warriors, but not quite desirable enough for them to take, made it more desirable and gave it a reason to be in the Protection tree.

Stance dancing always has been important to PvE and will become more so for Alliance players with the change to Fear Ward so while the talent is very useful in PvP I think it's wrong to call it a PvP talent per se.

Bear in mind though that none of these changes are set in stone and we will want to see how everything pans out on the PTR before any changes go live, but personally, I think it would be nice to see a bit more experimentation and variety in PvP builds.
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I suppose this is in regards to increasing the threat done by Bloodthirst and Mortal strike while in defensive stance? That's nice and all, but it isnt likely going to make me want to change the classic 17/44 fury build to get TM in prot tree.
Or is there some other change to it that i've missed?

Stim
05-10-2007, 09:09 AM
It's stupid and utterly pointless change. Instead of decreasing threat done by those abilities they increased it.
More Blizzard's stupid ideas please, kthx...

Chopper
05-10-2007, 09:27 AM
It's stupid and utterly pointless change. Instead of decreasing threat done by those abilities they increased it.
More Blizzard's stupid ideas please, kthx...
"While arms/fury warriors aren't meant to be as good as protection warriors at tanking, we do plan to make an additional to Tactical Mastery that may help them out. This talent will grant greatly increased threat from Mortal Strike and Bloodthirst when in Defensive Stance." - Bornakk, US CM

Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1778046976&sid=1&pageNo=3#40

That's gonna cause some big problems when dps'ing in Defensive Stance.

Iyachtu
05-10-2007, 09:34 AM
olol.

Kzuhl
05-10-2007, 09:40 AM
It's stupid and utterly pointless change. Instead of decreasing threat done by those abilities they increased it.
More Blizzard's stupid ideas please, kthx...

Unless you tend to do pve dps in defensive stance I don't see where your problem is.

As for the change itself, yes the increased threat of MS/BT in def stance is all there is to it (as far as it's documented). Since 17/44 seems to be where it's at for dw/fury the change will have little impact for people specced that way, ofcourse.

That said, people focusing on pvp, who have TM in their every-day spec, might just get some use out of it. (For heroics, whatever.. pvp trinkets from badges etc.) A few warriors who are specced 17/44 might want to juggle some points around and sacrifice some dps potential for improved raid-offtanking viability. Most raids I heard of only take 0-1 dps warriors to their raids right now, the trash-/offtank spot seems to mostly be filled with feral druids atm.

How big the impact of the change is, depends on the actual implementation, and I wouldn't pass any judgement before 2.3 is on the PTRs at least.

Stim
05-10-2007, 11:03 AM
That's gonna cause some big problems when dps'ing in Defensive Stance.
Yes, "LOL not gonna affect me anyway" logic applies here perfectly. What I was trying to say is "LOL why bother with stupid stuff that is not gonna affect ones who it adresses because of redundancy" thus creating more bugs and delaying highly expected patches.

Gwynin
05-10-2007, 11:16 AM
I still want some sorta aggro REDUCING skill tbh :(

Arthran
05-10-2007, 11:22 AM
I still want some sorta aggro REDUCING skill tbh :(


To paraphrase yourself Gwyn, GO tank damn nub

Taurusos
05-10-2007, 11:43 AM
Stim...why would u be in def stance from the first place using ms or bt unless u wanted aggro?

Also: See what they are doing? Basically change that dps warriors threattanking, based on dps, similar to a feral.

druidololol cries incoming, this might just make a very nice solution to needing less respecs tbh, but you still need to sport the tanking gear ofc.

About aggro reducing: ive seen some images around the net on a warrior skill called efficency; its supposed to add hitrating and be a "use". Reducing threat by 50 % for 10 seconds, 3 min cd. TBH, I personally dont believe it but will try to post images when I get home if I find it.

/Tau

Chopper
05-10-2007, 11:45 AM
Yes, "LOL not gonna affect me anyway" logic applies here perfectly. What I was trying to say is "LOL why bother with stupid stuff that is not gonna affect ones who it adresses because of redundancy" thus creating more bugs and delaying highly expected patches.
I'm afraid I can't see your reasoning to immediately condemn the change as "utterly pointless and stupid". (Your first post.)

Why should they decrease threat done by abilities instead of making this change? (Your first post again.) Imo, classes need to have strengths and weaknesses. The DPS warrior strength is the ability to do a fuckload of damage, and the weakness is the threat and inability to dump or reduce it. Don't get me wrong - a dps threat dump/reduction would be great, but at this time Blizzard is choosing not to grant the warrior with such an ability.

If you have a TM build then the proposed change, far from being "redundant", is probably going to be a nice tanking buff.

If you're running with a TM-free/specialised build (e.g. 17+/41+/0, 31+/28+/0, 0+/0+/31+) then it won't affect you anyway, so there's no point getting your knickers in a twist.

Taurusos
05-10-2007, 11:45 AM
Why would it create bugs? See the bigger picture, they are giving dps warriors at least a freaking chance to run a 5 man with bit more chill and slacking since they will have better aggro.

Or using that dpsfurypersonguy to BAM taunt a mob when healers slacked on MT while cleaning trash.

This doesnt harm warriors in any way or form. Whatsoever. Its a welcome change.

/Tau

Stim
05-10-2007, 12:24 PM
I strongly believe that responsible dps helps non-prot specced warriors hold aggro on mobs much more than a high rage cost damaging move with help of the talent most of them won't have. Me: LOOK! I Got MS with fast 1-hander doing THREATZ!!! Tier5 fire mage: LOLPOMPYROZ! I can hold now aggro pretty good now, adjusting gear from survivability to aggro generation (through damage insrease mostly) to fit situation. What strucks me most is that I have to use drood's battleres/lock SS on certain raid boss to wipe threat list, not the possibility of aggro loss on million of adds I got to offtank in raid (using MS lol?). 33/28, 31/30, 17/44 are raid dps builds, no TM on them, no bonus for raid off-tanking duty. When I had to go all tnak and tough I specced 31/5/25 to suit me better and had no aggro problems in Heroics. So, what's the point? Help PvP people (ones who got TM) in PvE content? Yes the change is beneficial. Needed? No... Will I care about it? Hardly. Gratz on useless job well done again.
p.s. Reminds of Sword Spec fix that it wouldn't proc off itself... It was so overpowered, before...
anyway
/carehug

Flawless
05-10-2007, 12:44 PM
Its a casual talent/early raiding talent.

Also Stim, you don't know the added threat bonus, you don't how it will work so just go ahead and shut up.

Iyachtu
05-10-2007, 12:44 PM
It's a welcome change for sure, but wont change anything for me personally.
I wont break the fury build i have cuz i think it works very well, sure aggro is an issue on certain encounter (that ive seen so far) but it isnt gamebreaking.

And yes, tanking heroics as a fury is a royal pain and should be avoided at best (unless you have windfury which makes it a little easier) But, with the introcuction of daily quests, where you can make 150g+ from 10 of them, a 100g respecc from whatever dps build you had, to protection to do a couple of heroics, isnt really that bad.

Flawless
05-10-2007, 12:49 PM
And yes, tanking heroics as a fury is a royal pain and should be avoided at best (unless you have windfury which makes it a little easier) But, with the introcuction of daily quests, where you can make 150g+ from 10 of them, a 100g respecc from whatever dps build to had to protection to do a couple of heroics, isnt really that bad.

Indeed, I welcome this change either way, no doubt Ill be leveling as arms with WotLK.

Iyachtu
05-10-2007, 12:55 PM
Same i think, i did 60- > 70 as fury, and it was too much work tbh.
Then again, i think i learned from it and it benefited me in the end, but needles to say i dont plan on doing it again >.<

Valoran
05-10-2007, 01:38 PM
Fury seems quite nice for solo work, very little downtime with BT and certain trinkets. I've always leveled as arms previously, but I think I'll give it a go as fury this time round, especially with raid level dps gear. Might end up going back to arms if my hit rating drops enough though, so it really just depends on the drops/quest items I suppose.

Tsarina
06-10-2007, 03:53 AM
3 points in TM isn't avilable to anyone wanting to maximize in PvE. There are some decent 2v2/3v3 specs with TM, so I guess it's nice for arena warriors wanting to do heroics.

This is nice, though:

WoW Forums -> 2.3 - Can we have some Fury <3? (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2043944509&pageNo=10&sid=1#196)

Iyachtu
06-10-2007, 08:18 AM
Patch 2.3: Warrior Changes (Source)

Not a lot is finalized right now, but we are currently planning to make Improved Berserker Stance provide threat reduction by 2/4/6/8/10% while in Berserker Stance.


Not much else to say than : Buttsecks.

Gwynin
06-10-2007, 04:49 PM
Uhh that would be nice :D

Stim
09-10-2007, 06:41 AM
Respecced fury tbh.

I R PERPARAID!