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View Full Version : Our Nerfs will block out the Sun!


isharon
09-09-2007, 12:49 AM
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371637697&sid=1&pageNo=1
worth to fully read it :)

Ashym
09-09-2007, 01:01 AM
<3

miganto
09-09-2007, 01:42 AM
A good bit =)

==============

Blizzard: All the Warriors requires is this: a simple offering of respeccing holy and healing.. A token of the paladins submission to the will of guild progression.

Retribution Paladins: Healing...well that's a bit of a problem. See rumor has it that the Druids have already turned you down. And if those philosophers and bird-lovers have found that kind of nerve...

Holy Paladins: We must be diplomatic....

Retribution Paladins: AND, of course, Retribution Paladins have their reputation to think about.

Blizzard: Choose your words carefully, Retribution Paladins. They may be your last.

Retribution Paladins start canceling their WoW accounts to play WAR

Blizzard: Mad man! You're a mad man!

Retribution Paladins: Holy and healing. Oh, you'll find plenty of those in WoW.

Blizzard: No one! No one cancels their WoW account after three years!

Retribution Paladins: You tell us that the Holy tree is the only effective spec. You nerf our damage out put. You insult our abilities. You force all Paladins to heal. Oh, I chosen my words carefully, Blizzard. Perhaps you should have done the same.

Blizzard: This is blasphemy! This is madness!

The Retribution Paladins pause with their mouse button over the 'cancel account" button.

Retribution Paladins: Madness? This is Retribution!!!

Account canceled

Player goes on to play a Warrior Priest on WAR

Oggo
09-09-2007, 01:55 PM
Paladin: Choose your next words carefull Blizz... they may be your last ones before I cancel my account!

Blizz Dev: You bring your bubbles and overpowered arena teams to my discussion forums. You QQ nonstop about Ret. You threaten my casters with having to press one more button and possibly wasting a cooldown! Oh, I've chosen my words carefully, Paladin. Perhaps you should have done the same!

Paladin: This is blasphemy! This is madness!

Blizz Dev: Madness? This is WORKING AS INTENDED!

Oggo
09-09-2007, 01:57 PM
Tirion Fordring on the eve of the WotLK expansion release, speaks about the late great Uther Lightbringer:

He did not wish tribute, nor song, or monuments or poems of war and valor. His wish was simple. "Buff us" he said to me. That was his hope, should any free soul come across that place, in all the countless centuries yet to be. "May all our voices whisper to you from the ageless stones, "Go tell the Paladins, passerby, that here by Blizzard law, we were nerfed." And so Uther died, and my brothers were nerfed; barely a year ago. Long I pondered Uther's cryptic talk of rerolling, but time has proven him wise, for from nerfed talents to nerfed cooldowns, the word was spread that bold Uther and his scrub arena team, so far from their hearthstones, laid down their lives... not just for the Alliance, but for all Azeroth and the promise this expansion holds. Now here on this ragged patch of earth called Northrend, that noob Arthas faces obliteration!

HA-OOH!

The enemy's I-WIN buttons outnumber us a paltry 3 to 1, a good reason to QQ for any Paladin. This day we rescue a world from chainfears and stupid cc's and usher in a world brighter than anything we can imagine, Give thanks, men, to Uther and the brave paladins! TO PHAT EPIX!

Also fucken epic

Oggo
09-09-2007, 01:59 PM
For 3 years they've served the dark will of Blizzard. Eyes as dark as night... teeth, filed to fangs... soulless. The personal guard to Kaplan; the forum mod elite. The deadliest thread-locking force in all of the forums. The Blizzard Reps.

Oggo
09-09-2007, 02:05 PM
The ret pally recieves loot, [Gorehowl]

MS Warrior: Noooo, myy axxee!!! :(

Ret Pally: It is not yours anymore, Go now, run along and tell your guild master that you faced a melee paladin today, not a healer.

MS Warriors: No, (kekek) not melee. Your rogues will melee, your shamans, your druids, your warriors will melee. But not you. By noon this day you will be HOLY SPEC! A thousand progression guilds of azeroth will QQ on your realm forums. Our posts shall block out the sun!

Ret Pally: Then I shall melee in the shade

Oggo
09-09-2007, 02:06 PM
Paladin Leader: "If it is blood you seek you are welcome to join us."

Warrior Leader: "But you bring only this handful of soldiers against Blizzard? I would expect the Paladins commitment to at least match our own."

Paladin Leader: (Points to random warrior) "You there what is your profession?"

Warrior 1: "I'm a leatherworker..."

Paladin Leader: (Points to another warrior) "And you warrior, what is your profession?"

Warrior 2: "Engineer, sir..."

Paladin Leader: "Engineer....." (Points to yet another warrior) "And you?"

Warrior 3: "Blacksmith..."

Paladin Leader: "PALADINS!!! WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION?!?!?!?!?!!!!"

Army of Paladins: "HEAL!!!!! HEAL!!!!! HEAL!!!!!"

Paladin Leader: "You see old friend, I brought more soldiers than you did"

isharon
09-09-2007, 02:58 PM
Paladin: Choose your next words carefull Blizz... they may be your last ones before I cancel my account!

Blizz Dev: You bring your bubbles and overpowered arena teams to my discussion forums. You QQ nonstop about Ret. You threaten my casters with having to press one more button and possibly wasting a cooldown! Oh, I've chosen my words carefully, Paladin. Perhaps you should have done the same!

Paladin: This is blasphemy! This is madness!

Blizz Dev: Madness? This is WORKING AS INTENDED!

wouldnt be supprised of blizz realy said this :)

Stim
01-10-2007, 12:25 PM
posting in
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/4441/legendarythreadba8.jpg

Cheylon
01-10-2007, 01:01 PM
Dislaimer: The following statement is made by someone who is not well versed in theorycraft or lore, hence the following statement is from a simple pov;

Why is it nessecary for paladins to be equal in tanking ability to a warrior? I believe a pally tank should be a secondary tank, used for specific encounters, not interchangeable with warriors (this goes for druids aswell). What is so wrong with being good at only 1 thing and medium at everything? Why should a class be good at everything? Although I don't have the original warcraft manual at hand, I am pretty sure I didn't read "pick this class and you will have the possibility to be great at all 3 aspects of the game (heal/dps/tank)"

Just to clarify: I do believe pallies and druids can be great tanks (skillwise), they just shouldn't be as good from a game mechanics pov.

Or maybe I am missing the point of the thread entirely *shrugs*

/flameon

Über
01-10-2007, 01:06 PM
I think you're in the wrong thread.

Kinshara
01-10-2007, 01:33 PM
You are in the wrong thread... but "specific encounters". What the heck do they do the rest of the time, then? /dance? Leave the raid and let the "real" tanks do the work?

If someone specs to be a tank, they expect to be able to tank. They won't all be 100% equal in all areas, but they should be close enough that any of the 3 tanks can be used for raid progression, even if a properly played warrior would have an edge.

Gwynin
01-10-2007, 02:32 PM
"Retribution Paladins: AND, of course, Retribution Paladins have their reputation to think about."

What reputation if I may ask ? You might be good tanks in specific situations, but your dps in raids still doesnt impress me :P

Senex
01-10-2007, 05:07 PM
Why is it nessecary for paladins to be equal in tanking ability to a warrior?
Why is it necessary for warriors to be equal in tanking ability to paladins? Can't warriors be content with their role of heavily armored DPS dealers with a secondary ability to offtank on certain encounters?

Furion
01-10-2007, 06:00 PM
I want to tank, but my groups dont want me rolling on tanking gear :(

Gwynin
01-10-2007, 11:36 PM
Why is it necessary for warriors to be equal in tanking ability to paladins? Can't warriors be content with their role of heavily armored DPS dealers with a secondary ability to offtank on certain encounters?

Im quite happy with that actually, dps is way more fun (still doesnt mean palas do actual dps tho ;) )...

Cheylon
02-10-2007, 09:26 AM
You are in the wrong thread... but "specific encounters". What the heck do they do the rest of the time, then? /dance? Leave the raid and let the "real" tanks do the work?

Yes.


But seriously, what I meant was that a pally should be an OT type tank, so the tanking heirachy would be MT warrior > OT warrior > Paladin/druid providing equal gear/skill, leaving only game mechanics. Current status is imo MT warrior> OT warrior/paladin/druid, and pallies/druids I assume would love MT warrior/Paladin/Druid > ??mage?


Why is it necessary for warriors to be equal in tanking ability to paladins? Can't warriors be content with their role of heavily armored DPS dealers with a secondary ability to offtank on certain encounters?

In my mind for the reason that it was originally described as this was the class to pick if you wanted to do this and this. Unfortunately I can't remember what was written about paladins, but I do remember reading about druids that due to thier many forms they were ideal to fulfill many roles in a party in a secondary fashion. In the past years everyone just complained enough that Blizz partial decided that it was easier to balance it out rather than telling ppl they needed to choose another class in order to be specialised.

Lednar
03-10-2007, 07:29 AM
I want to tank, but my groups dont want me rolling on tanking gear :(

loldruid? :P

Kinshara
03-10-2007, 08:00 AM
Yes.


But seriously, what I meant was that a pally should be an OT type tank, so the tanking heirachy would be MT warrior > OT warrior > Paladin/druid providing equal gear/skill, leaving only game mechanics. Current status is imo MT warrior> OT warrior/paladin/druid, and pallies/druids I assume would love MT warrior/Paladin/Druid > ??mage?

Your proposed hierarchy is somewhat similar to the situation prior to TBC. Y'know, when warriors were the only people tanking, and paladins and druids got shoved into healing roles for everything?

The problem is that if warriors are so superior to paladins/druids, they *will* be the only ones picked -- if mobs were tuned to the level of the paladins and druids you propose, it would be trivial for a prot warrior to tank them. If it's instead tuned for a prot warrior so that the encounter is actually challenging, then it's impossible for the other two until they outgear the encounter.

Part of it is perception, but a large part is actually just due to tuning the encounter to make it challenging for tanks. All tanking classes need to be very close in ability when specced to tank, with their own individual strengths.

Edit: There's also the matter of a 4th tanking class being added; Death Knights will probably be just as capable, and also won't have heals. They will tank in a different manner though, seeing as they don't have shields.

Arthran
03-10-2007, 08:27 AM
Meh, as much as this started as a fun thread, it ought to stay that way, the pala tank thread is over there somewhere *points*

But tbh there's not reason a paladin cant be MT, anybody who tells you otherwise is either an idiot or an Elitist tw*t or is way to used to dealing with nub palatanks. Im not going to get into the "olol im better than j00 lot" discussion, but i MT on most bosses for my guild, but i also know my strengths and my weaknesses.

In regards to tank hierarchy you need one of those flow diagrams. If the fight is very agro sensitive and needs fast threat generation, a warrior is your last choice, if the fight involves heavy damage being done but not alot of agro issues, then a paladin is your last choice and a warrior is best. Bears are in the middle with strong threat, reasonable damage soaking, but lower avoidance than warriors.

TBH all guilds should raid with one of each, as this allows the most flexibility for bossfights :P

Ajial
03-10-2007, 08:59 AM
You all need to lrn2heal imo

(im joking btw dont flame, im only little :( )

Arthran
03-10-2007, 09:09 AM
damn shamans these days

Valoran
03-10-2007, 09:19 PM
But tbh there's not reason a paladin cant be MT, anybody who tells you otherwise is either an idiot or an Elitist tw*t or is way to used to dealing with nub palatanks. Im not going to get into the "olol im better than j00 lot" discussion, but i MT on most bosses for my guild, but i also know my strengths and my weaknesses.
Which fights in current endgame are better main tanked by paladins? Just curious. From SSC to BT.

I went over this quite thoroughly in the pally tank thread, but you're just delusional about your class if you're still making these comments. There's no reason at all to have a prot pally in your guild (at the same time though, there's no reason not to have one as an OT, I just personally think that offtank/heal is a bad combination).

Thordyn
03-10-2007, 09:31 PM
Which fights in current endgame are better main tanked by paladins? Just curious. From SSC to BT.

I went over this quite thoroughly in the pally tank thread, but you're just delusional about your class if you're still making these comments. There's no reason at all to have a prot pally in your guild (at the same time though, there's no reason not to have one as an OT, I just personally think that offtank/heal is a bad combination).

Oh now look what you've done..

Senex
03-10-2007, 10:34 PM
Which fights in current endgame are better main tanked by paladins? Just curious.
Leo?

Arthran
04-10-2007, 12:20 AM
any agro sensitive fight, I MT both Gruul and VR as its important to have high agro fast to allow fast dps to start, whilst i may only be used to low tps warriors so this is only my personal point of view, kills always go much smoother with me going all out threat MT. as i said and will continue to say, each breed of tank has its own strengths and weeknesses. Im not one of these fools who demands to MT everything, as i know full well certain fights its better our warrior CL tanks as he has better mitigation.

Palados
04-10-2007, 01:11 PM
Leo is easier with tankadin for sure. We did him with warrior too, but the difference was obvious. Tankadin gives much bigger margin for errors. Also tankadin makes Hydross add tanking quite a lot easier. We killed him with druid/warrior/pala tanks and different mixes, but best results were with having 2 tankadins tanking 2 adds each. At the moment we use druid/war/tankadin combo and any other tanking class instead of tankadin would make the fight a bit harder. I don't say that warrior/druid can't tank two adds at the same time, but they don't allow our DPS to AoE all out from start. If you don't want to use 5 tanks on Kara (say let DPS war go all DPS instead of tanking pet) - tankadin can easily tank pet and hunter at the same time. Also, from my experience, tankadin on VR can keep aggro longer than druids (that can do it better than warriors). Solarian, despite not requiring tankaind, is much easier (as well as moro) with tankadin tanking adds. On Moro even one healer can easily cover tankadin that tanks both murlock groups and heal tombed people at the same time.

I don't claim that in any fight save Leo you'll see big difference using tankadins, but definitely they make many fights a bit safer and a bit easier. Imho it's enough to have them in raids.

P.S. We had tankadin tanking Vashj almost all P1 due to unlucky combo that killed our warrior tank. For me, as healer, difference wasn't big at all. He even had no shammy to put totems to eat shocks and still it was OK. Both of them have abour 20-25% items from T5 content and rest (save trinks) from T4 content.

Valoran
04-10-2007, 01:32 PM
So from the whole of ssc to black temple, people can come up with two bosses that are better main tanked by paladins that have no real disadvantages to being tanked by warriors/druids (or even warlocks, kek). Yes, every guild should have one. Grats on your sub par healer for the rest of the content.

Arthran
04-10-2007, 01:50 PM
meh name bosses better main tanked by druids.

The simple thing is, if you want that extra agro margin, use a paladin tank, if you want/need extra survivability use a warrior tank. Palatanks function fine as OT's on fights like Hydross and Karathress etc, i've tanked al'ar even though he has no agro on phase 1, were still good tanks for non-agro fights, were jsut the best agro tanks arround atm

Valoran
04-10-2007, 03:19 PM
I'm not trying to make a case of bosses better main tanked by druids. A tank/dps/cres hybrid for offtanking works out quite well. A tank/heal hybrid does not. As for the whole aggro deal, aggro is very rarely an issue for CoI, so I can only assume you're talking about inexperienced warrior tanks who don't use a proper threat rotation.

Paladins currently make sub par main tanks for the vast majority of endgame content out there. Live with it.

Flawless
04-10-2007, 09:32 PM
OH no no no no no Dorris what have you done?!

Gwynin
04-10-2007, 09:48 PM
OH no no no no no Dorris what have you done?!

qtt ?

miganto
05-10-2007, 03:10 AM
Asking here, not saying;

Isn't a pally tank on morogrim best? Due to the crushing blows on a warrior (earthquake) and the spikey damage of the druid (Crushing blows), isnt a pally best due to the more level damage he takes, even with the lower health pool. (A warrior 'needs' the extra health due to taking crushing blows that the paladin wouldnt)

Yes/No?

*Specifically for Valoran - Don't start! I'm just asking*

Senex
05-10-2007, 08:28 AM
Yes.

However, due to the extreme usefulness of a tankadin on Murloc adds, we usually get assigned to that role instead. The only way that a paladin would get to tank Moro himself is if his or her guild has two protection paladins in their raid, and we all know how common such raids are.
Paladins currently make sub par main tanks for the vast majority of endgame content out there.
Emphasis on 'currently'.
Live with it.
Never. The current state of encounters that is so grossly skewed in the favor of warrior tanks is just as much of a design mistake as were the chain-Cleaves, PBAoEs and high glancing blow chances of 2.0 that made melee DPS highly unwanted.

Gwynin
05-10-2007, 10:29 AM
As someone said earlier inhere, if encounters were tuned to pala main tanks they would be way too easy for the class that is suposed to be the tank eg the warrior...

Just bloody face it you aint meant to be main tanks :P

Stim
05-10-2007, 11:14 AM
I was recently doing SL run with shaman tank Senex. If something can be done it doesn't mean it's the best way to do so.

Firesoul
05-10-2007, 11:32 AM
Va, just out of curiosity, why would you NOT have a pally as an offtank?

Gwynin
05-10-2007, 11:45 AM
He allready said why

A tank/dps/cres hybrid for offtanking works out quite well. A tank/heal hybrid does not.


Cant wait the the retardins to flock to the fire defending their 'dps'

Ajial
05-10-2007, 12:04 PM
Why cant my priest tank dammit! Why cant people just accept that paladins were never designed and therefor never will be main tanks in the majority of cases? They make decent offtanks and fine MTs in kz and below... be happy with that before tbc unless it was an undead instance you couldnt tank crap very easily.

Firesoul
05-10-2007, 12:06 PM
Cant wait the the retardins to flock to the fire defending their 'dps'

I didn't ask you, but cheers for the other bit, I must have missed it.

As for this. I'm yet to come across any retardins making any points on this thread or this whole section, for that matter.

I guess I must have missed that too though.

Following on from that - again at Val - we don't always have 4 blessings in the raid. Wouldn't the extra blessing make it a bit more of a viable option? Especially on fights when all races are taking raid damage as I'd assume they'd be throwing out *cough* Sanctuary as well as other buffs.

Note: I'm not a fan of Pally tanks myself. I'm just trying to be a bit more objective about it.

Gwynin
05-10-2007, 12:08 PM
My last bit of that comment was mainly becos that alot of paladins still consider themselves a dps class, and since Val used the tank/dps hybrid comment there might be some palas claiming that they are part of that hybrid comment and not the tank/heal one. ;)

Ajial
05-10-2007, 12:19 PM
Well its typical human behaviour to want more, instead of thanking blizzard for at least making them decent tanks they want more more more.. As i said before, before tbc shaman were better tanks then paladins.. Be happy for what you have no angry for what you dont.

Firesoul
05-10-2007, 12:44 PM
My last bit of that comment was mainly becos that alot of paladins still consider themselves a dps class

No one here though, so it wasn't needed.

But fair point.

Firesoul
05-10-2007, 12:45 PM
Well its typical human behaviour to want more, instead of thanking blizzard for at least making them decent tanks they want more more more.. As i said before, before tbc shaman were better tanks then paladins.. Be happy for what you have no angry for what you dont.

Sorry... er... that's a pile of crap.

Ajial
05-10-2007, 12:54 PM
Why? What exactly do paladin want? To be on par with warriors?

Firesoul
05-10-2007, 01:10 PM
Why? What exactly do paladin want? To be on par with warriors?

I don't care what Pally tanks want. I'm never going to be one, and I'll only take an interest in the tree to see what I can get out of it for healing/staying alive/support.

The "crap" comment was aimed at yours, for all the stuff about "be happy with what you've got".

It's the nature of the class to be able to do everything, just not be the best at everything. Hence pallies will always want "moremoremore", because there will always be a class that can do something better.

With the possible exception of incombat mana regen... - woo-hoo.

Valoran
05-10-2007, 01:13 PM
Fire: Someone mentioned it in the pally tank thread, but basically when you need something extra tanked you need extra healing. Having someone tank something and then assist in healing afterwards just isn't really that helpful in any current fight that isn't morogrim or possibly council, hence my preferance for tank/dps (also combat resses are awesome).

Four blessings is nice, but you really cover all the good stuff with three and clever use of 10 minute buffs on hybrids. We're talking about BoSanc now? Are we that desperate to find some reasoning behind bringing more paladyns? :p


Also, I wouldn't use a paladin on morogrim himself, even if there were five in the raid - just due to the buttons.

I'm not taking into account any of the upcoming changes when I say this and as senex says "currently" is a very important word.

Firesoul
05-10-2007, 01:21 PM
Are we that desperate to find some reasoning behind bringing more paladyns? :p


Yeah.

Arthran
05-10-2007, 01:25 PM
Prejudice really will get you far, and no i cant spell either!

Valoran
05-10-2007, 01:27 PM
Feel free to supply a wws or some other piece of empirical data to back it up.

Firesoul
05-10-2007, 01:31 PM
Feel free to supply a wws or some other piece of empirical data to back it up.

Tell me you love me in your 1000th post please.

Arthran
05-10-2007, 01:31 PM
to back what up? i struggle to see how WWS will prove Paladins ability to tank past kara. On the other hand i have seen maths to show that retadins bring enough buffs and de-buffs to a raid to be a usefull raid spot, and no for the life of me i cant remember where, may have been on EJ

Valoran
05-10-2007, 01:35 PM
Tell me you love me in your 1000th post please.
Too late. :(

Arthran: if you think paladins could do a good job of tanking something, then a wws would show this.

Arthran
05-10-2007, 01:38 PM
still a bit confused as to how a WWS can show this, as WWS cannot show TPS, merely data regarding damage done and mitigation. I can easily give you WWS's of our raids with me MT'ing bosses

Valoran
05-10-2007, 01:44 PM
You just said paladins would take less damage on morogrim, wws can prove or disprove this. As for threat, well it's also possible to show that for warriors atleast if you're happy with running a script through your log.

Valoran
05-10-2007, 01:50 PM
http://www.coolyo.org/index.php?area=threat

Found the link. (only works for warriors afaik.)

Arthran
05-10-2007, 01:57 PM
Asking here, not saying;

Isn't a pally tank on morogrim best? Due to the crushing blows on a warrior (earthquake) and the spikey damage of the druid (Crushing blows), isnt a pally best due to the more level damage he takes, even with the lower health pool. (A warrior 'needs' the extra health due to taking crushing blows that the paladin wouldnt)

Yes/No?

*Specifically for Valoran - Don't start! I'm just asking*


That was Taunton not me! Personally on moro i'd have the pala tank (myself) dealing with the murlocks not MT'ing there, i'll leave that to my Main Prot warrior Shinri, cos tbh i've always said in non-agro sensitive fights against a single target, warriors have better mitigation so are better tanks

Valoran
05-10-2007, 01:59 PM
Ok, my bad.

I keep typoing it Taunton too.

Arthran
05-10-2007, 02:04 PM
Tauntons statement scares me, its plainly obvious that its easier for a warrior to be crushing immune than a pala :P

Senex
05-10-2007, 02:31 PM
Why cant my priest tank dammit!
Because your priest does not have a Protection talent tree. Nor does he have T4/T5/T6 tanking set, or non-set tanking gear options.
Why cant people just accept that paladins were never designed and therefor never will be main tanks in the majority of cases?
Because paladins ARE intended to be on par with warriors:

"The devs actually mentioned today that Paladin tanking wasn't exactly where they wanted it to be and there would be attention paid towards that end of things. Overall, they do expect Paladins, Druids and Warriors to fill tanking roles in end-game, whatever they may be. While there may be a flavor distinction between tanks, we don't want to (or want the players to) find some rigid hierarchy by which classes are measured in their tanking potential to the third decimal point." - Tseric.
Tauntons statement scares me, its plainly obvious that its easier for a warrior to be crushing immune than a pala :P
A common misconception. It is more difficult for a paladin to gear up to the point of uncrushability, but once he's there, he is actually less likely to eat a crush (or, more importantly, 2+ back-to-back crushes). A boss with a high attack speed or specials that can blow away SB/HS charges (Thrash, Earthquake, and the like) will crush a warrior more often than he would a paladin (unless the warrior in question is wearing a ridiculous amount of +BR gear, and is thus crushimmune with SB down).

Imp. Shield Block = 2 charges every 5 seconds.
Imp. Holy Shield = 8 charges every 10 seconds.

You do the math.
As someone said earlier inhere, if encounters were tuned to pala main tanks they would be way too easy for the class that is suposed to be the tank eg the warrior...
Prejudiced 'hierarchic' thinking aside, it is entirely possible to skew an encounter in favor of tankadins without trivializing it for warriors, especially after 2.3. An extreme example would be a boss with a 1.3 attack speed that is capable of crushings and who disarms the tank for 10 minutes.
Just bloody face it you aint meant to be main tanks :P
Before TBC, people used to tell me that shadow priests and BM hunters are simply not meant to be viable raiding characters, and will *never* be seen in such a role. Well, guess what.

miganto
05-10-2007, 04:57 PM
Aye, earthquake means a warrior will take crushing blows, but a paladin wouldn't, taking out that extra damage, even though an equally geared pally would take a little more damage than a warrior from the other hits.

I'm just wondering if the crushing a warrior takes means that overall he'd take more damage from the fight?


Anywho, the people who think paladins are only good for tanking 5man/karaz, what do you think they should spec for 25?

I just think if most other classes had only one way to play for all 25man raiding, there'd be some complaints and people saying 'thats how it is, deal with it' wouldn't be considered an adequate response if it was directed at your class. Especially the hybrid classes. If changes were made in 2.3, so that the only spec viable for raiding for shamans and druids was range dps, for instance, i'm sure people would see the issue. I think people have 'grown up' with paladins only healing in raiding, and believe they should stick to it.

I'd 'like' for the hybrids to be able to do each role as good as the pure class, based on their talent tree, as, as you say, why would anyone take a sub par hybrid along, when they can take the real thing and do things easier? I agree with that, i just think 'hybrids' are always a touchy subject in mmo's, and usually best to leave them out due to the headaches they cause.

Senex
05-10-2007, 05:01 PM
Aye, earthquake means a warrior will take crushing blows, but a paladin wouldnt, taking out that extra damage, even though an equally geared pally would take a little more damage than a warrior from the other hits.

I'm just wondering if the crushing a warrior takes means that overall he'd take more damage from the fight?
I don't think so. However, it does make him more likely to die to an unlucky damage spike.

miganto
05-10-2007, 05:12 PM
O.k :)

Palados
07-10-2007, 12:10 PM
Well, some guilds stick to tankadins no matter what. Linadillar's guilds killed Kael at the end of September. Next week they killed 2 hyjal bosses, this week they killed 2 BT bosses. Maybe there are only 2-3 guilds that have pala MT and do T6 content, but at least they show it's possible even now. At the moment it's more the matter of taste. Some prefer druids OT, some - tankadin OT, some - stack prot warriors. Our tanking team consist of 2 prot warriors, one DPS war respeccing prot if we lack restist tank for hydross, 1 tankadin and 2 druids. And I am searching for one more tankadin geared for T5 content. Just name me a boss where you NEED more than one prot warrior tanking and explain why I should have 3 full prots instead of 2 wars and one tankaind and maybe I will change my mind. At the moment tankadin fits perfectly into the team. Maybe in T6 instances it will change, but I doubt it to be honest. And if they will buff prot tree in 2.3-2.4 we will be one of the lucky guilds having good geared tankadin(s).

I think that it would be better, if not paladins and people from guilds where no tankadins are used posted their opinions, but healers from people who use both paladin and warrior MT. I remember very serious people (some of the best tanks on server from top guilds) convincing me that druid as MT is complete bullshit due to more stress on healers. While me as healer should just change healing tactics and sometimes it would be even easier with druid MT, than warrior MT. Less spikes even with more damage taken may be easier to bear.

I, personally, haven't seen big difference in healing tankadin and warrior in Vashj fight. If you more or less chainheal it doesn't matter if during P1 pala got 4-6 hits more than war. There are no advantages using pala tank there, but you can't really say that war tank will make the fight much easier. No BoF or no grounding totem screws fight much more than changing war for paladin. As well as if tank got rooted and due to any reason no BoF is up/casted paladin can use his shield to continue building aggro or self BoF.

Malakali
07-10-2007, 01:33 PM
This thread was fun at first =[


GTFO my prot plate

Senex
07-10-2007, 07:58 PM
GTFO my prot plate
When the revolution comes, you'll be the paladins' thunderclap/demoshout bitch - a role that does not require any prot plate whatsoever.

Malakali
07-10-2007, 08:11 PM
That day comes when paladins can do something other than retreat better than any other class

so srsly, GTFO my raid :P

im having fun before you all get a semi and rub yourselves

miganto
07-10-2007, 10:28 PM
Pssh pvp dps fallout boy turned prot ¬_¬

Palados
08-10-2007, 10:27 AM
Hehe, yesterday our druids and priests had a day off due to different RL reasons - had 1 priest healer and 0 druid healers in the raid. So we had 4 holy, 1 prot and 1 retri pally. All possible 30min blessings on everyone :P. Having less healers was fun though, first we killed VR and Hydross with almost 4min to spare and Leo with over 1min.

(and don't mock for having retridin in raids - keeping 3% crit buff while healing in holy gear on bosses and some DPS on trash pays off, with right build and a lot of mana pots retri pally in healing gear is quite effective healer).

Encrypted
08-10-2007, 04:24 PM
keeping 3% crit buff while healing in holy gear on bosses

Blasphemy!

Senex
08-10-2007, 04:39 PM
Blasphemy!
And madness.

Bleetman
09-10-2007, 04:26 AM
And incredibly easy to work into a holy build next patch. Unless you're really, really determined to get kings.