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View Full Version : asking for fellow mages opinion. no flaming please.


sageclaire
26-07-2007, 12:03 AM
I am thinking to respec arcane ( yea arcane ) because of the 2 set bonus favours arcane blast compared to my traditional fireball/icebolt and the -40% aggro threat on arcane spells. The questions i'd love to ask are :

1 . any1 has a nice dps cycle rotation for arcane spec ?
2 . is it worth taking "slow" for PVE purpose ?
3 . i know this spec eat huge chunk of mana, so the question being, on potting/flaskin up, should i go the traditional supreme power or should i go elixir of draenic wisdom http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32067 + adept's elixir http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28103 / flask of distilled wisdom ?
4 . Gem slots = traditional potent noble topaz/runed living ruby vs brilliant dawnstone ( 8 crit rating ) ?
5 . Any susgestion on talent builds.

the official mage forum from blizzard rarely touch bout arcane spec ( i guess its a wierd spec after all ? ), so i'd love to hear some feedbacks on how to spec my arcane mage.

Thank you.

Robinvi
26-07-2007, 12:21 AM
Flame!

lulz

Flawless
26-07-2007, 01:54 AM
Im surprised you haven't gotten anything off the official forums, tried the US ones, Im sure I've read a few going arcane for the 2 set bonus;

Hongten
26-07-2007, 06:29 AM
I am thinking to respec arcane ( yea arcane ) because of the 2 set bonus favours arcane blast compared to my traditional fireball/icebolt and the -40% aggro threat on arcane spells. The questions i'd love to ask are :

1 . any1 has a nice dps cycle rotation for arcane spec ?
2 . is it worth taking "slow" for PVE purpose ?
3 . i know this spec eat huge chunk of mana, so the question being, on potting/flaskin up, should i go the traditional supreme power or should i go elixir of draenic wisdom http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32067 + adept's elixir http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28103 / flask of distilled wisdom ?
4 . Gem slots = traditional potent noble topaz/runed living ruby vs brilliant dawnstone ( 8 crit rating ) ?
5 . Any susgestion on talent builds.

the official mage forum from blizzard rarely touch bout arcane spec ( i guess its a wierd spec after all ? ), so i'd love to hear some feedbacks on how to spec my arcane mage.

Thank you.
Airie is in arcane build now - top dps (/wave locks), doesnt have less then 1000dps in a raid, build in his armory profile. The difference between arc and fire is quite noticable to say atleast. And slow is nice on Vashj for example. Respec u wont regret.

Trupiaczacha
26-07-2007, 09:11 AM
its nice arc is for sure fun. and it rock in hyjal ;P whit 2 t5 items its the way.

n/p you can go up to 1.1k+ DPS in all raid time in SSC TK. and in hyjal it rly good :)

all depends on whot you will get for build.. look at you gear and get this whot is best for you.

you can go deep Arc whit slow. but you can go 40/xx/xx or 32/xx/xx all depends on you gear tbh.

anyway its nice... and something new from Fire build. whitch was geting boring for me ;p

- slow is nothing importen tbh.
- i will go elixirs instend of Flask.
- gems. depends on build. but i will say overall +dmg, +hit/dmg. all the way :)

it eats mana ;p but if you have good items. and shadownub. you can make nice cycle rotation of spells. AB and scorch or frostbolt. depends on builds. you can make build using AM on clearcasts too. there are many options all RLY depends on you gear only.

spikeyy
26-07-2007, 10:03 AM
Try this thread...it is long, so just a skim through is worth it. Lots of interesting points about fire vs arcane and info on arcane spell rotation.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t13190-mage_how_can_arcane_damage_work/

sageclaire
26-07-2007, 11:05 AM
thnx tosh and trupi. will skim thru the elitistjerk linky when i finish my job.

tedde
26-07-2007, 02:51 PM
Are you planning to use AM and Arcane blast or still use fire or frost spells? I've been arc/fire for a rather long time now and it's ok in pve but most likely not good enough compared to whatever firebuild it was most pve mages seem to be using. I would love to be able to go fully arcane as in only using arcane spells, would be a nice way to get something different on the screen.

sageclaire
26-07-2007, 03:51 PM
from the elitist jerk link, AB -> AB -> AM -> scorch -> rinse n repeat is the mana conserving dps cycle. And for the offensive mana use, its ABX3-> AM-> scorch -> rinse n repeat . really, thanks tosh for the link, really helped. now gonna give it a try :)

p/s please close the thread now? thank you

tedde
26-07-2007, 11:24 PM
AP+PoM still on a fireball/pyro or just use it on a first AB?

Valoran
26-07-2007, 11:42 PM
Use on pyro on a clearcast. The dot + extra damage still makes it the best choice.

Corruption
27-07-2007, 07:10 AM
Yes, respec Arcane so I dont have to cast Curse of Elements, ta.

sageclaire
27-07-2007, 08:06 AM
another i found out from the elitist link is that, i should go arcane missile when i gained clearcasting, coz each pelt of missiles has a seperate chance of critting, and i am out of FSR during that time. Now back to more reading of this weird spec.

Trupiaczacha
27-07-2007, 09:36 AM
read all and you will know exacly how it work ;)

sageclaire
30-07-2007, 08:41 PM
hurm, tried it today in raid, and gaining around 250 dps is awesome.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oixEc0cdxIuiZZVh <-- that talent build seems to not be that bad at all.

Flawless
31-07-2007, 12:22 AM
going that deep and not taking Slow? Wai? :<

Valoran
31-07-2007, 12:24 AM
Hmm, why the points in frost?

If you're going that deep into arcane, you really shouldn't be casting any frost spells - just not worth it without going about 20 deep in arcane.

Just curious to the logic behind that.

sageclaire
31-07-2007, 06:30 AM
At least that 8 frost talents will help me when i am grinding primal mana ;) . and yea, in yesterday's raid, i casted 97% arcane spells, as recorded by WWS. So that 8 points = just fillers. the other 3% was idd scorch

Trupiaczacha
31-07-2007, 10:27 AM
scorch > frost in arc build.

sageclaire
31-07-2007, 10:43 AM
well, i dont have enough points to get improved scorch, since the 53 points on arcane was carefully selected for raid dps. Scorch is a bit gimped without the fire vulnerability, hence i went for bolts instead. But thnx for feedback, trupi ;) Will try on the calculator if i can squeze in imp scorch and make it 43 - 18 - 0 instead.

Faylin
31-07-2007, 10:51 AM
Something like this?
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=kixVc0cztIuioxg0z

For Pyro's on POM and with Flame Throwing you have fire as an alternative if range is an issue.

For all I know Magic Absorption are 5 wasted talent points, as it only proc's on fully resisted spells, and how often is that going to happen?
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Valoran
31-07-2007, 03:33 PM
Something like this?
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=kixVc0cztIuioxg0z

For Pyro's on POM and with Flame Throwing you have fire as an alternative if range is an issue.

For all I know Magic Absorption are 5 wasted talent points, as it only proc's on fully resisted spells, and how often is that going to happen?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
It's nice for maybe two fights (two if you use SR for kaz'rogal, and just mother if you don't) in tbc. Otherwise, meh. By nice, I mean not totally worthless.

Personally, if I was trying a deep arcane build, I'd just dump all 61 points in there. Looking at the early frost/fire trees, there's nothing I would want while still putting enough in arcane to get the desired effect.

Kabhanda
31-07-2007, 03:36 PM
Resist gear on a non binary spell can never cause absorption's effect, so its a useless talent on mother. (and if you use res gear on kazrogal you cant oom anyway, so its still useless)

sageclaire
31-07-2007, 03:41 PM
thnx for lovely feedbacks, khysti, beatus and others.

Rey
31-07-2007, 05:26 PM
Please dont forget, mage's primary function is to make water and being ganked!

Trupiaczacha
31-07-2007, 05:29 PM
i will try more for deep arc

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=kixVc0czxIuiZVgMz

and 3xab - am - scorch

and littel more "hybrid" [i use it now] for farming honor[stupid archimode] low rating arenas etc ;p

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ki0Vc0fzxIziZVgMzf00o

2ab - 3scorch

always depends how ppl like to play ;p

ealanrian
07-08-2007, 09:16 AM
To be honest i think it depends on your gear if you got set bonus e.g. tier 5 then yes go arcane but u should stack up gems+enchants with intelect as arcane is very costly and it actually does alot of damage generally.


If you have alot of crit in your and your not in tier 5 sets ^^ then i suggest you go for fire around like 25% crit without being fire spec if you got less then that then i suggest deep frost with some points in aracane for mana regen and ofc clearstating and less resistance on your spells^^

hope this helps

Valoran
07-08-2007, 10:37 AM
Int? No. :P

Deep arcane and cookiecutter fire are around the same overall. There are some fights where each outperforms the other, but it's not that noticable till you get deep into bt (and then only on some fights), at which point deep fire, arcane and frost are all viable.

Spell Penetration is useless. There is one boss it helps on in TBC raiding (supremus).

Going deep frost = no arcane tree mana regen talents.

Bunneh
08-08-2007, 12:35 PM
Rather than start a new thread I thought I'd jump into Eclair's thread and ask some Mage DPS questions too.

My Mage, Darvon (http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shadowsong&n=Darvon) is one of many many alts, he's specced Frost, with points in Arcane for the usual stuff. Up against a Fire Mage in Karazhan last night I only just managed to keep up DPS wise. I was told to drop my crit chance down as it was once 25% or so, I have done this and it's now 10% unbuffed, but my DPS has suffered for it. I'm contemplating increasing my crit again back up to about 20%.

Spell rotation on Frost seems a tad limited, normally I tend to get 5 Winter's Chill with lance early in a fight, pop elemental and a trinket. Toyed with Fire Blast on rotation as well but it eats mana like fat men eat cakes. Problem with Karazhan is trash dies so damn fast I probably only get 3 casts off before a mob is dead. I want to increase my DPS for the guild raids, but don't want to lose the survivability of Frost - should I increase my crit and/or change spec?

Warlee
08-08-2007, 01:55 PM
Imo talking about doing DPS on trash is kind of not needed, especially in karazhan where trashes are easy. It won't help much if you will splash out more mana (dps) on those groups as it's not a problem for guild. You are progressing bosses, not trashes. Forgeting about this fact for a while, if on trashes , u're going for 5x winter's chill done by icelance ,especially on mobs that die pretty fast, it's useless(you gain critic *yes* but you loose a lot of damage, and imo you should start straight with frostbolt. Honestly as a frost mage you can see rather advantage on long fights, where you can dps constantly without having mana issues. I haven't tested myself how frostbolt/fireblast rotation helps(was raiding myself with fire builds) but remember u're puting frostbolt on global cooldown using by fireblast , also you burn mana more, so it's preferable for trashes rather, not for long fights. Also unless you're having talents (flame throwing) + gladiator/honor gloves, your fireblast is having small range . Again, if we move back to trashes, when you have water elemental on dpsing em, try puting frost nova on your target while casting frostbolt or just before it lands, than after frostbolt instantly make icelance so both spells will 'catch' shatter effect.

If you're still willing to raid with frost builds you should take hit rating over critc if we speak of items. Myself I'd recommend geting fire build for raiding as (imo) it's more fun and more dps effective.

Valoran
08-08-2007, 02:46 PM
10/47/3 (+1) is one of the easiest specs to dps and achieve high numbers with, it's just a case of chain chugging potions/gems and hitting that fireball button (with scorch obviously). If you're just looking for a dps increase, try that out for a while.

If you're really set on the frost idea though, just takes a little bit more work. Aim for the hit cap, start building on your crit/damage and just play around with trinket/elemental cooldowns, see what works for you.

Another tip to really help your damage output would be to start using stopcasting macros with your spells. Let me just dig up the post I made a few months ago on the guild forums.
First off, get this casting bar mod.

http://files.wowace.com/Quartz/Quartz.zip

If you look at the image below, you can see a red marker on my casting bar, this shows the latency I was experiencing at the time I started casting and the predicted time which the spell can be safely canceled from the client side, while the server still believes the full three second cast was carried out.
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5886/quartzoi2.png

So, how does this translate to a DPS increase? Well, coupled with a stop casting macro similar to this:
#showtooltip Fireball
/stopcasting
/cast FireballYou can time pressing this during the 'red' part of the cast bar to cancel the current spell and start a new one. While the cast you interupted still goes through due to server lag.

Essentially (if you time it right) you cut the red bit out of every spellcast, which when fireball spamming with resonable latiancy (200ms or so) can result in a ~10% dps increase (just remember to scorch too! :p).

The catch? You have to time it right, every time. If you hit it too soon, you cancel a very nearly completed spell, too late you don't improve your DPS at all (and worse case lose dps over the tried and tested hammer the fireball button method). Obviously casting more spells will also mean we spend more mana, but it is a flat DPS boost, so handy trick to have on hand for those DPS heavy encounters.

Note: this doesn't do anything for scorch, as you're still restricted by the 1.5 second global cooldown.
Replace fireball with frostbolt/arcane blast/whatever

Flawless
08-08-2007, 02:50 PM
I read blizzard are doing something to eliminate the need of /stopcast.

Valoran
08-08-2007, 02:53 PM
Yeah, they're looking at something like that, but as it stands it still works and does give a noticable dps increase.

Edit: there's no ETA on the change either and nothing in the patch notes for upcoming stuff, so expect things to remain as they are for a couple of months at least.

Warlee
08-08-2007, 03:16 PM
nice trick ;p

Valoran
08-08-2007, 03:19 PM
It's been around since the aq40 days with "fastcast". I'm really surprised so many people don't know about it. :p

Trupiaczacha
08-08-2007, 04:28 PM
well its old and nice.. but dont rlt work good when you have latence 50 in raids.

anyway Arc > fire ;p way way more fun as presing 1 butten.

sageclaire
09-08-2007, 12:04 AM
i'd really love to thank you all: trupi, val, khysti and others for your nice feedbacks. I never knew that the stopcast stuff can actually increase ur dps, but its proven, so thanks val, appreciated that.
seems to me that AB spamming on execute range is plain nice nuke ( raided with this spec and quite satisfied with it ). And as for a more sustainable dps, Abx3 -> AM -> scorch rotation is really great.

Bunneh
09-08-2007, 12:55 PM
Ditto, thanks guys for the information, the Quartz mod sounds intriging. I am happy with Frost, but willing to try other set ups.

Murghad
14-08-2007, 08:10 PM
Not sure if it has been mentioned but Elitist Jerks has a some good information if you want to do an arcane spec. Hell they have good information all round.

Vegelus
16-08-2007, 11:47 AM
Murgh, just look at the first page pls -.-

Corruption
16-08-2007, 12:27 PM
Cant blame the man for not wanting to fish through the whole thread, mages are shite!

Warlee
16-08-2007, 12:52 PM
Cant blame the man for not wanting to fish through the whole thread, mages are shite!


Who said this. Warlock.


Meh

Zarcon
24-08-2007, 11:23 AM
Quartz for dummies video http://files.filefront.com//;8309896;;/