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thurlog
15-06-2007, 12:23 AM
Indirectly some respected fellow warrior brought this subject to my attention, so i went on some searching and found actually very little on the subject?
The best part i found was this pre-tbc text:
If you look at Fury main attack, Bloodthirst, you see it uses 45% of your Ap to calculate it's damage. This is both good and bad. It means you can still do big damage with a 1dps dagger, if you have a lot of Ap, but it also means improving your weapons has little effect on Bloodthirst unless they have +str or +Ap stats. They matter for the rest of your attacks though.
There are several combos of weapons you can use, being: Slow-slow, slow-fast, fast-fast or fast-slow.
If you go for a Slow mainhand you use that for the same reason a MS warrior wants slow weapons - because the damage range is high. This means your instant hits will hit harder than if you were using a fast mainhand (note all warrior skills take into account the mainhand to calculate their damage, just like with Rogues). However, you can think about if that is worth it to you, since the only 3 instant attacks you use are 1) Overpower, 2) Whirlwind and 3) Bloodthirst. BT doesn't rely on weapon damage, so you basically would use a slow mainhand for just overpower and whirlwind. Other skills you have are "use on next swing" like Heroic Strike and Cleave. This means a fixed amount of damage gets added on your swing, so here a fast weapon would be better to get more swings in a shorter time (which would damage less than a slow weapon, but hit more). It's about personal preference really.
The offhand - ah well, this is build-based really. A slow offhand means you are likely using it for the proc a weapon has (or if you have nothing else) or just because it looks badass - there's not really a point to slow offhands. The DPS of your offhand is only 50% of what it would be in your mainhand. DualWield spec adds 25% damage, but instead of granting you 75% offhand damage it gives you 62,5%, since it is calculated like this (let's say your offhand has 100dps). 100+25=125. 125/2 = 62,5% offhand damage.
Rogues get their actual 25% boost since it is calculated after the offhand reduction for them.
So you can have a big badass offhand but the damage is gonna be gimped anyway. It'll still deal damage - and if it's a big epic it'll hurt a lot still. But here's why I think you should use a fast offhand: Flurry. If you have 5 points in Flurry you get a 30% attackspeed increase for 3 swings (both main and offhand). Flurry is triggered if you get a critical hit. The more critical hits you get, the more Flurry you get and the more raw dps you get. A fast offhand swings more often and since crit% is a fixed number can thus crit more often than if you were using a slow offhand. Every crit procs Flurry - increasing weaponspeed and also increasing chances on another Flurry. The other reason for a fast offhand is because they are known to have pretty decent stats. Think daggers (like CHT). Cht is like a godly offhand but you're not likely to get such a thing over a Rogue, not with ease anyway. Fast offhand swings also interupt more in PvP.


I'm using 1.8 MH and 1.6 OH speed (Emerald Ripper and Fireguard)
It was suggested to use Demonblood Eviscerator for example as MH.

Now, before i shard my Ripper... discuss pls? ;)

Tsarina
15-06-2007, 02:19 AM
The post you are quoting, is rubbish. Hardly anything there is correct. Instead of trying to figure out what's right or not, I would just consider all of it meaningless babbling if I were you.

And for your question:

You have two good weapons. Don't exchange one of them for a rubbish one. (Personally I don't think warriors should ever use daggers, but that's more of an RPish pow)


But since I have time, here are some other thoughts:

Aim for two weapons with similar speed. And that's slow MH and slow OH. You want slow MH because of Whirlwind damage. And that's it. It's not a huge part of your total damage, but every little bit counts.
Obviously you go for the best weapons you can, and in your case it's too fast weapons. And that's fine. The important thing is to not have the Off-hand eat flurry attacks. Even if you have OH spec, and armory says that you do, your MH still does a lot more damage and that's the weapon you want to hit more often. For rogues, as the poster mentions, this is of course different. SnD doesn't have charges.

The only viable combinations are fast/fast and slow/slow. Or if you feel to be rebellious, fast MH and slow OH.
Yes. Yes!
If you check a couple of semi-famous guild's fury warriors, you can see some of them with that combo. Why? Well, to get the MH to take 2 flurry hits instead of the other way around. Obviously you'll be mocked by the other warriors, so only the very brave ones dare try this out. But it makes sense and is a whole lot better than the traditional Slow MH/ fast OH combo. That was never a good sollution. Not even before they changed UB.

Flawless
15-06-2007, 07:35 AM
I thought OH didn't eat flurry unless it was less than half speed of MH

Faylin
15-06-2007, 08:01 AM
... and what I think Tsarina also meant to say, but didn't emphasise (correct me if I'm wrong) is go for DPS on the weapon more then speed.
I often see people with a crappy MH and an epic OH, just because (for example) the speed on the offhand is 0,1 faster.

Decebalus
15-06-2007, 09:08 AM
However, you can think about if that is worth it to you, since the only 3 instant attacks you use are 1) Overpower, 2) Whirlwind and 3) Bloodthirst.

LOL... yeah, Overpower is great for dpsing with a fury build... :D

Stim
15-06-2007, 11:01 AM
I thought OH didn't eat flurry unless it was less than half speed of MH

wut?

Iyachtu
15-06-2007, 11:31 AM
Im using a slow MH (wicked edge) and Fast OH (gladiators).
Been thinking about farming the mats for a fel-edged, reckon this is a good idea then ?
(since it's 2.20 speed, and have a fairly good dmg range)

Graphics
15-06-2007, 02:03 PM
I thought the Attack Speed for Daggers used in the main hand was normalised to 1.7 for instants?

Chopper
15-06-2007, 02:17 PM
Weapons speeds are normalised for instants, but slower weapons still have higher low-end and top-end damage amounts.

Compare arcanite reaper (slow) and arcanite champion (fast)

Kinshara
15-06-2007, 03:00 PM
Weapons speeds are normalised for instants, but slower weapons still have higher low-end and top-end damage amounts.

I think the point was that daggers are worse than other 1handers for warriors, since the AP multiplier on instants is lower. (1.7 vs 2.4, iirc)

They're fine for rogues using backstab, but worse for warriors using whirlwind. BT isn't affected by this of course.

Chopper
15-06-2007, 03:14 PM
Ah, I see. I checked it out in more detail <here> (http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Instant_Melee_Attacks) and you were right about 1.7 and 2.4.

So it seems that a dagger is actually marginally inferior as a warrior's main hand weapon.

Iyachtu
15-06-2007, 04:03 PM
As if id choose a dagger for my MH anyway... <.<

Kinshara
15-06-2007, 04:58 PM
OP's current MH is a dagger, though.

A slower weapon would be preferable, but dropping down ~15 base dps to a blue isn't a good idea. When you find a comparable(or superior) slow weapon, goferit.

Chonar
19-06-2007, 01:54 PM
HAHA
Yeah
Who'd use a dagger in MH anyway?

.... :(
I cant help it that phoenix claw is offhand only and malchazeen has higher dps than any axe or mace I have please dont hurt me

Aggromedon
19-06-2007, 05:53 PM
HAHA
Yeah
Who'd use a dagger in MH anyway?

.... :(
I cant help it that phoenix claw is offhand only and malchazeen has higher dps than any axe or mace I have please dont hurt me

Get the BANHAMMER!

Gnorth
19-06-2007, 08:58 PM
You can't kill the Baron of the funny hat province!

Alverion
20-06-2007, 05:42 AM
HAHA
Yeah
Who'd use a dagger in MH anyway?

.... :(
I cant help it that phoenix claw is offhand only and malchazeen has higher dps than any axe or mace I have please dont hurt me

It's okay.

You and Crash can make a club. "Warriors who use daggers and are proud"

Chonar
27-06-2007, 11:38 AM
It's okay.

You and Crash can make a club. "Warriors who use daggers and are proud"

I aint proud about it. >:'(