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Gumdrops
07-06-2007, 10:26 AM
The only thing listed for rogues..

Rogues

* Sword Specialization: The change to Sword Specialization making its extra attacks appear in yellow has been reverted. Extra attacks will appear in white and act like any auto-attack. They will no longer reset the swing time of your weapon.

Lame.

Mistoria
07-06-2007, 12:05 PM
at least the swing timer is not reset but still a nerf :/

Fingolfin
07-06-2007, 01:59 PM
After all those months of testing why even bother implementing the change if you're just going to change it a couple of weeks later.

Hammett
07-06-2007, 11:13 PM
l2spec dagger : ]

or hemo.

or alternatively some spec without sword spez just 'cause you're annoyed by how good it used to be

Gumdrops
08-06-2007, 07:17 AM
Why the hell would I spec Hemo?

tin
08-06-2007, 08:14 AM
Why the hell would I spec Hemo?

'cuz ur emo? :p


-Tin

Stim
08-06-2007, 08:59 AM
haha
on a serious note,
MUHAHAHAHA.

Manidim
08-06-2007, 09:10 AM
haha
on a serious note,
MUHAHAHAHA.

Read the warrior changes? Haha. MUAHAHHAHA.

Stim
08-06-2007, 10:21 AM
/careface
Liek omg warriorso got nerfed!11 nowai.
Overpower dims on the action bar when the player is affected by disarm spells
faceplam tbh

Backupo
08-06-2007, 02:26 PM
Warriors

Overpower dims on the action bar when the player is affected by disarm spells.
Sword Specialization: The change to Sword Specialization making its extra attacks appear in yellow has been reverted. Extra attacks will appear in white and act like any auto-attack. They will no longer reset the swing time of your weapon. Rage awarded will be calculated by damage dealt as with any normal auto-attack.

Kinshara
08-06-2007, 02:54 PM
Read the warrior changes? Haha. MUAHAHHAHA.

Meh, warriors get rage from ss procs now.

Hammett
09-06-2007, 01:07 AM
Well, Gumdrops, Hemo is a challenging spec PvE wise, it actually means you can't just spam SS and hold SnD up and get on top of dmg meters :)

Gumdrops
09-06-2007, 01:16 AM
Well, Gumdrops, Hemo is a challenging spec PvE wise, it actually means you can't just spam SS and hold SnD up and get on top of dmg meters :)

That still doesn't explain why I'd spec Hemo? If anything, just emphasises the fact that swords is better?

Valoran
09-06-2007, 01:31 AM
Why would anyone spec hemo for pve dps? =/

Skepta
09-06-2007, 07:26 AM
coz dey r geh lal

Hammett
09-06-2007, 03:54 PM
Well, maybe you should try it instead of saying "LOL FFS U R GHEY IF SPEC HEMO LOL XDXDXD"?

It's a decent PvE spec combined with the right gear. Tried it out pre-tbc, and with 5 rogues / 1 fury warrior the debuff actually aint_that_bad. Given that you know how to play the spec, and as i pointed about earlier, got the right gear for it this spec, PvE wise, aint that bad really: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ihe0oxZ0eVZircohhRoxo

Alternatively this build ain't bad for PvE either (obviously) http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhebot0obZZircohhRsxkh

But yes, swords will usually give better DPS PvE wise, but with the right knowledge of the spec, your combos, you will support your other melee DPS'ers with a nice buff, and throw out some quite decent damage yourself.

Valoran
09-06-2007, 04:13 PM
If you have poor gear for combat swords, then there might be a point where Hemo is better for DPS. However, that really doesn't make the spec decent for pve dps as you will always do poor dps with poor gear.

Get some 5 man blues/quest items, spec swords and your dps will go up substantially vs. a Hemo spec with comparable gear. That's including the buff a single Hemo rogue brings to a raid. Once you start getting raid gear, the gap just gets bigger.

Hammett
09-06-2007, 04:18 PM
I don't agree. Combat swords is very easy to DPS in with shit gear. ( I de'd my char and went with grps in lvl 63 greens, in combat swords spec, i'd know) but with hemo you need alot of AP to compete with a combat sword specced filled raid. Or combat daggers...

Valoran
09-06-2007, 04:21 PM
You say "easy", if that's your only point then yes. Combat swords are easier to play than Hemo in terms of what buttons you need to press (read: mash). However, if you're talking about dps, then you really don't have a leg to stand on, regardless of how "easy" it is. Your dps will just be lower.

Gumdrops
09-06-2007, 04:27 PM
Well, maybe you should try it instead of saying "LOL FFS U R GHEY IF SPEC HEMO LOL XDXDXD"?

I have tried it. I specced Hemo when I first got my Spiteblade and to be blunt it was shit. I fell SO far behind in my damage output it really only took two seconds for me to decide to go back to combat swords.

It's a decent PvE spec combined with the right gear.

As it happens I have the right kind of gear to spec hemo and provide 'dps', but it just so happens that speccing combat swords would provide substantially more 'dps'! What are the odds!

Tried it out pre-tbc, and with 5 rogues / 1 fury warrior the debuff actually aint_that_bad.

The 'benefit' it gives to other melee users really isn't that substantial in TBC since it's a very rogue unfriendly expanision. Even moreso with the 25 man raid cap now, I can really only think of one, maybe two, encounters you'd want to have any more than three melee dps without gimping the raid.

But yes, swords will usually give better DPS PvE wise, but with the right knowledge of the spec, your combos, you will support your other melee DPS'ers with a nice buff, and throw out some quite decent damage yourself.

That sentence just contradicts itself totally. I love it!

Combat swords is very easy to DPS in with shit gear.

And even easier with decent gear!

Hammett
09-06-2007, 04:38 PM
The sentence you point out as contradict or whatever, was meant as a "it's not as good as Combat sword, but the debuff helps the rest of the group"

Gumdrops
09-06-2007, 04:42 PM
The point is the DPS gain from hemo for minimum of two or three other people doesn't compare to speccing combat swords.

Hammett
09-06-2007, 04:51 PM
You can't state that - it's a matter of opinion and style what you like and what you're best at.

I'm Swords myself, since, as stated before, it (atleast with my poor gear) is better.

Valoran
09-06-2007, 05:06 PM
Actually, you can state that. It's shit for dps.

If you want factual information/data for this, read http://elitistjerks.com/showthread.php?t=11882

Hammett
09-06-2007, 05:10 PM
actually, you can't, it's not shit.

What now?

Valoran
09-06-2007, 05:15 PM
You're an idiot. Have a look at the spreadsheet.

What now?

Hammett
09-06-2007, 05:17 PM
Right, deleted.

Name calling is really a new low.

Think of me what you want, but no need to call me an idiot.

Valoran
09-06-2007, 05:22 PM
Well, if you disagree, there should be factual information to back it up. Rather than "it's good".

I posted information which you seem to have totally ignored.

Hammett
09-06-2007, 05:29 PM
No, i didn't, i actually read that before, since i read up on the subject of Hemo PvE DPS last night. I've tried it myself, and if you choose to ignore the fact that i said it's a decent build myself, guess you're an idiot aswell, no?

I'm not in love with this build, i'm not defending it for no reason, i'm just saying that the build is a decent PvE build. But i guess all there will come out from this is more namecalling more, "L2P" or whatever. So just leave it at that...

Slicer
09-06-2007, 06:00 PM
no, you can't OH Hope Ender

Unlucky Gum.

Valoran
09-06-2007, 06:08 PM
No, i didn't, i actually read that before, since i read up on the subject of Hemo PvE DPS last night. I've tried it myself, and if you choose to ignore the fact that i said it's a decent build myself, guess you're an idiot aswell, no?

I'm not in love with this build, i'm not defending it for no reason, i'm just saying that the build is a decent PvE build. But i guess all there will come out from this is more namecalling more, "L2P" or whatever. So just leave it at that...
If you've read it before, and accept it as a valid source of information, how you can still hold hemo as a viable dps spec is beyond me.

Basically, you can disagree with that spreadsheet and try to prove your point otherwise - or you can agree which totally refutes your theory on Hemo.

Which is it?

Gumdrops
09-06-2007, 06:49 PM
Unlucky Gum.

They look cool!


No, i didn't, i actually read that before, since i read up on the subject of Hemo PvE DPS last night.

Nice extensive research there.

Hammett
09-06-2007, 06:54 PM
Thanks, basically what it'd like to do was find out what other people think about it, so that's what i did. Now i'm getting slacked for that too? GG.

Valoran
09-06-2007, 07:20 PM
You're getting "slacked" because you're claiming it's better than combat swords for dps "if you know what you're doing".
Saying that it's based on opinion in the face of factual information contradicting exactly that is a bit daft.

Hammett
09-06-2007, 07:30 PM
...

I never said it was better, i said it was a decent PVE build, that also will give your fellow melee DPS classes a decent buff.

Never said it was better, sorry.

Gumdrops
09-06-2007, 08:15 PM
Why the hell would I spec Hemo?

It's a vicious circle.

Hammett
09-06-2007, 08:29 PM
Indeed =(

Morilith
10-06-2007, 12:40 AM
Real rogs play daggers anyhow.

Hammett
10-06-2007, 01:45 AM
That my dear friend, is true :)

Slicer
10-06-2007, 02:16 AM
Hemo daggers, for the ultimate combination!

(May have ironic tone.)

thurlog
10-06-2007, 05:36 AM
i stab gud?

Hammett
10-06-2007, 11:29 AM
Actually i see quite afew hemo specced people using daggers, sad innit :<

Manidim
10-06-2007, 09:06 PM
Actually i see quite afew hemo specced people using daggers, sad innit :<


I'd say that most of those people have put a point in Hemo, if they have one or more spare points that they have no idea where to put.

Rey
10-06-2007, 11:28 PM
Real rogs play daggers anyhow.

what the gay belf said

Morilith
11-06-2007, 02:11 AM
what the sexy belf said

Fixed.

Alverion
11-06-2007, 06:28 AM
No no, Rey was right the first time.

Gwynin
11-06-2007, 04:28 PM
you're all emo

Rey
11-06-2007, 05:26 PM
We know, is the African way

Kathra
12-06-2007, 11:17 PM
No no, Rey was right the first time.


Indeed, but he would have recieved more points for using the word "Rentboy"

Ul Rey, try harder next time

You damn corpse.

Slicer
13-06-2007, 03:35 PM
Kafra smells.

Rey
13-06-2007, 05:37 PM
Kafra smells.

This man.........speaks the truth

Über
13-06-2007, 06:40 PM
Facts so far:

Fact #1
-Kathra smells.
(Originally informed by Slicer, information was later on confirmed by Rey.)

Next immediate actions to acquire more facts.

Action #1
-Determine the nature of the smell.
(More like a stink, or closer to stench?)

Action #2
-Determine the origin of the smell.
(This task might require a experienced field agent.)

NOTIFICATION: More actions might and probably will follow as the investigation proceeds.

The purpose of the investigation:

-Creating a better, odourfree environment.

Slashy
14-06-2007, 09:06 AM
Kafra smells.

clothra* oh the good old days ;'[ *wipes tear from eye*

Eisenheim
14-06-2007, 09:32 AM
Feces and fur isnt the best combo, it might be a good place to start looking for the smell!

Rey
14-06-2007, 05:04 PM
Kafra's jc vendor gems might be the cause

Morilith
16-06-2007, 12:01 AM
Kafra still wears cloth. Looks like a cow priest.

Kathra
16-06-2007, 11:11 PM
I haet you all.

Kathra
16-06-2007, 11:14 PM
Kafra's jc vendor gems might be the cause



Nub, try grinding as a tree please

See how you like it?;[

Morilith
17-06-2007, 01:21 AM
Nub, try grinding as a tree please

See how you like it?;[

Easy.

Just keep thorns up and outheal the mobs!

Bleetman
17-06-2007, 04:37 PM
Or do the bunch of daily quests that require very little/no fighting whatsoever.

Kathra
17-06-2007, 05:54 PM
Or do the bunch of daily quests that require very little/no fighting whatsoever.

Yeh but then my problem is solved and I dont get to cry about being resto?

Morilith
20-06-2007, 12:14 AM
Let's just drop the topic and mock Kafra instead.

/mock