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View Full Version : Tanking Weapon - Fast or slow?


Bunneh
29-05-2007, 09:35 AM
Somethings I have always thought were set in stone, but I'm beginning to wonder. I have never been the sort of player to study the game mechanics, and having played this damn game for over 2 years it's unlikely to ever happen to a great degree - although I'm always willing to learn.

I have always used a fast weapon for tanking, ranging from 1.5-2.0 or there abouts. I was told and never really questioned how/why, it was due to rage generation being faster with a fast weapon, and allowing very rapid use of HS for aggro gain. I use the usual tanking skills for aggro gain, Sunder, Shield Slam, Shield Block then Revenge, Disarm, HS and screaming abuse.

In my old Alliance days I have tanked in MC/ZG and AQ20, and have always used a fast weapon to do that. Fiery Retributor being my weapon of choice since the one from Raptor boss never dropped for me (*sad face*).

I recently respecced my Orc to Protection and I am using a 2.3 speed one hander, which to me feels a little slow, even if most of the aggro gain moves are instant strikes (Rage permitting). Although I am using the above axe I have no problem keeping aggro at all.

Anyway, I've started to notice quite a few protection tanks using slow (2.6 or so) weapons for tanking. Do slower weapons create better rage? Am I missing something here?

Incidently, I'm trying to get the axe from the Cipher quest line, just need to gank the gianty thing in SMV and it's mine, it has a nice speed on it - linky (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31071)

Stim
29-05-2007, 09:40 AM
I got fast to spam heroics strikes to avoid all that nuking bitches getting aggro off me in 2-3 shots. 1.8-1.4 Dunno why anyone would want slow weapon. We got revenge to do ze damage lol, innit?

Dinmomz
29-05-2007, 10:03 AM
ive always liked faster weapons (1.6-2.0). after trying lots of different weapons from speeds ranging from 1.3 to 2.9 i enjoy 1.8 or 1.9 speed the most... imo slower weapon just generates lower aggro, probably because of my playstyle...

altho my oppinion might be a bit skewed since i got tf

Taurusos
29-05-2007, 11:32 AM
Wrong approach from ones posting imo.

Look. Dont stick to ONE weapon, specially during the time you are tanking bosses.

Rotate your weapon arsenal during encounters, same way you should rotate hate.

Meaning, for a fight such as gruul or mag, there is no point actually using a tanking weapon that is 1.6-1.9 once you have sustained aggro (Like when the boss is at 97-98 %). When you as a tank KNOW that you have locked aggro on a boss, use a dps weapon. A gladiator or tier BS weapon.

Rage isnt a problem on raidencounter bosses outside Karazhan, youll have plenty rage to be able to use a slow weapon.

Why not have bigger HS? Or more white damage? Or stronger devestates?

Dont get stuck in the idea of sticking to one and one weapon only. Rotate them depending on what momentum u are in the encounter and the amount of threat you are sustaining.

But never ever start an encounter with a 2.0+ weapon....if you are doing the MT work.

Ever. Lock your threat down, from there on, rotate weapon.

/Tau

Kzuhl
29-05-2007, 01:53 PM
Pretty much all new (epic) weapons with some defensive stats have 1.6-1.7 speed anyway, not much of a choice there. I know I use my weapon 100% of the time, because I want its passive stats 100% of the time, too.

HS adds a flat value of threat/damage, so the only way to improve the threat gen from it, is to use it more often. Using a slow weapon doesn't affect the bonus damage at all.

For more white damage you don't need to look at speed either, just at the base dps.

Devastate does more damage with a slow weapon, yes, kinda balances out with HS frequency, I guess.

After all, use which ever drops first etc.

Iyachtu
30-05-2007, 08:19 AM
Using the honor hold epic 1 hander, cuz my fkn king's defender will never drop.

Gwynin
30-05-2007, 08:27 AM
Oh so whos mocking who for being prot now eh? :D

Iyachtu
30-05-2007, 10:52 AM
Oh im stull fury specc, but unfortunately i cant seem to convince the rest of the raid that priests can tank.

Rey
30-05-2007, 11:12 AM
Real warriors tank with a 2 hander

Tífa
30-05-2007, 11:25 AM
real warriors tank nekid

Stim
30-05-2007, 11:26 AM
real warriors heal not tank
kek

Bulldog
30-05-2007, 10:01 PM
there are no warriors at all, there are only: meatshields, rogues in plate or 'ms spec ololol'

Vegelus
31-05-2007, 11:31 AM
real warriors tank nekid

Leik TeH Chou tanking Lord V in LBRS in devout robe? (@60lvl)

Bunneh
10-06-2007, 10:14 AM
Thanks for the replies, made interesting reading. Whilst I was Protection grinding was slow and painful, even though melee mobs rarely hit me, I just found myself depressed, so went back Arms/Fury. I can still effectively OT, and I have a decent selection of def gear, but now I prefer to smashy stuff.

On another issue regarding hit rating and crit; I have 5 points in +crit with axes (Poleaxe specialisation), when I put my +hit gear on, go DW and use fist and sword weapons, my crit drops to about 25% in Berk Stance, and my hit rating is just over 100. If I go DW Fury spec (dropping Poleaxe spec) what amount of hit/crit would make it viable?

Something along the lines of this, however it's not finalised, so comments welcome.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TGMcdhbZVVzVxxoVuVoz

Thanks :)

Taurusos
10-06-2007, 10:29 AM
First of all:

"On another issue regarding hit rating and crit; I have 5 points in +crit with axes (Poleaxe specialisation), when I put my +hit gear on, go DW and use fist and sword weapons, my crit drops to about 25% in Berk Stance, and my hit rating is just over 100. If I go DW Fury spec (dropping Poleaxe spec) what amount of hit/crit would make it viable?"

Why do you even do go DW in arms build? Guessing since you have Poleaxe, you got MS too?

Also; Id say having a 25 % crit in zerkstance with a deep fury build is more than a good start, so guess you should work that.

I have a mixed set of epics, blues, all from leather to plate that I use to maximise pve dps (ala long time ago I actually did dps in raids...) and Ill see if I can put on maxed hit gear and then log off so gets saved to armory.

But tbh, last time I checked, I had 200+ hitrating. So 100 is low, but good for starters.

All and all:

Work on gear, aim _at least_ at a good 150+ hit rating and 22-25 % crit in zerk stance.

Take account into AP though, so str enchants or pure ap/str gems.

Mix it up. For AP, I dont know tbh, ask Cassina.

/Tau

Bunneh
10-06-2007, 11:34 AM
Why do you even do go DW in arms build? Guessing since you have Poleaxe, you got MS too?



9 times out of 10 I use the two hander from Mag'Har exalted, I do have MS, and Imp Slam with the 2hander. The plain and simple reason I use DW sometimes is I picked up a few 1H items on my travels and like to use them.

Will have to do some digging on getting some +hit/crit gear, enchants aren't too much of a problem plenty in guild who can do the high end ones, gems I can afford off the AH no problem.

Thanks again for your help, mucho appreciated :)

Theory
11-06-2007, 12:43 AM
I think the rotatetion thing Tau talks about is Kinda hard for most players.
Why? cus most warriors use Wardrobe and things like that so they cant remember where that 1h is.
What I would do to Lock Agro is this: Get latro shifting sword (BM last boss)
Lock your agro in raid and after keep smashing with your DPS 1h.
or if the healer can keep you up even a 2h or DW

thurlog
11-06-2007, 07:44 AM
you can macro Wardrobe stances

Taurusos
11-06-2007, 07:58 AM
I think the rotatetion thing Tau talks about is Kinda hard for most players.
Why? cus most warriors use Wardrobe and things like that so they cant remember where that 1h is.
What I would do to Lock Agro is this: Get latro shifting sword (BM last boss)
Lock your agro in raid and after keep smashing with your DPS 1h.
or if the healer can keep you up even a 2h or DW

Easy way to solve that:

Put your 2-3 1-h weapons on keybinds through macros.

Problem solved.

But dont ever ever go 2h when in raid and you are the focus of healers.

What you gotta see is that the healers who say have been focusing on healing you for 3-4 min when you are around 40k about 2nd on aggro, have gotten used to a certain amount of incoming damage. Unless there boss really is on farm and you strongly outgear it, changing to a 2h is dangerous, as the sudden spike , EVEN if your healer knows or not, can ruin a good attempt.

But Im sure you wouldnt try to pull this off on a Prince in 2nd ph or Nightbane when healers are too close cuz of charred earth and his fear is ready. ;)

Yours truly experienced something very intresting some time ago:

Gruul, 12 growths, he is on 9 or 10 %, I get instagibbed within a SEMISECOND.

Check my combat log and i dont see any crushings NOR blocked damage?
Have a go on healers. Heh.
Later I realised while running back that my 2h was on me, I learned to not have that macro keybinded ever again.

/Tau

Iyachtu
11-06-2007, 02:40 PM
haha nice one

Theory
02-07-2007, 01:28 AM
Agree

iTank
21-07-2007, 05:06 PM
real warriors tank nekid

which reminds me of the early summer 2006 @ BWL with OTD when tanking some dwagon boss a bee started to charge at me when i was nekid. Not kewl tbh.

But allways did and will tank nekid ^^

rl ofc.

Cheylon
24-07-2007, 07:41 AM
Anyone that could explain how to macro closet gnome plx? Also for extra credit if anyone could tell how to run the macro using clique!

Tytytytytyty

Cheylon
________
Suzuki A95 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_A95)

Miniloth
24-07-2007, 10:38 PM
You even attempt to tank 2 handed while im healing you without you telling me and I'll rip you bollox off.

Valoran
24-07-2007, 10:42 PM
Anyone that could explain how to macro closet gnome plx? Also for extra credit if anyone could tell how to run the macro using clique!

Tytytytytyty

Cheylon

/closetgnome wear setname

for Clique, just run that as a macro.

Flawless
25-07-2007, 03:56 PM
isn't clique a healer addon or have I been misinformed?

Valoran
25-07-2007, 04:14 PM
Well, it just allows you to bind stuff to clickcasting. If for some reason you want to bind alt+shift+m5 to equip mount gear, clique would be one way to do it.

Bulldog
26-07-2007, 01:42 PM
which reminds me of

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/1954/orzanubok7.jpg

If you have a bit closer look you will see him mining.

iTank
27-07-2007, 07:35 AM
it had my name written all over it and i saw you drooling for it :smt065

Bulldog
27-07-2007, 08:48 AM
Haha