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View Full Version : Need some Advice on which spec is best for my needs.


Goonerr
25-03-2007, 03:01 PM
I would like some advice on which spec is best for my needs, Since everyone needs a holy paladin in raids, I am thinking of speccing holy, But wasnt sure if i could do as much kicking ass as retribution, But ive heard i can kick more ass as holy with good spec and correct gear to support it, So what i would like is some advice on were to put my points, im level 64 at the moment.

:)

Duckman
25-03-2007, 04:58 PM
I just started leveling my paladin yesterday from lvl.60.
I'm holy specced and I love it. Easy to take on higher lvl mobs /more then one at the same time /grind quest alone /do nice dmg and still have mana left when you've killed ze mobs.
I got some points in retri also, but only bene and imp judgement.
Works wonders for me so far (halfway to 63 now)



/Ducky

Backupo
25-03-2007, 07:26 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=qVEuMxzheotZVbht

always enjoyed that spec, though i have to spec BoK atm for raiding :<

(Well....i enjoyed the level 60 equivalent that is.)

Lednar
25-03-2007, 08:03 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=qVEuMxzheotZVbht

always enjoyed that spec, though i have to spec BoK atm for raiding :<

(Well....i enjoyed the level 60 equivalent that is.)

That one seems enjoyable :P Still, gonna wait until I'm about 60 to use this. 18 atm :P

Celinde
26-03-2007, 08:52 PM
Well, if you need a spec for your needs you should start by tell us what your needs are, if you translate kick ass to deal as much damage as possible, you're best of with a Retribution build.

If you want to be able to solo as much tough mobs as possible I'd say you're best of with a tailored Holy spec.

If you want to be useful in a raid you better drop the illusion that a paladin with any spec can match a proper DPS class and either get a healing oriented spec or reroll.
I'm not sure how a tanking paladin would work out in a raid, so I won't make a statement on that.

Backupo
27-03-2007, 02:46 AM
Well, if you need a spec for your needs you should start by tell us what your needs are, if you translate kick ass to deal as much damage as possible, you're best of with a Retribution build.

If you want to be able to solo as much tough mobs as possible I'd say you're best of with a tailored Holy spec.

If you want to be useful in a raid you better drop the illusion that a paladin with any spec can match a proper DPS class and either get a healing oriented spec or reroll.
I'm not sure how a tanking paladin would work out in a raid, so I won't make a statement on that.


There currently isn't viability, just for the fact we have 1.5k less base hp, and 5% less mitigation in equal item-level gear, next patch will change it hopefully.

miganto
27-03-2007, 03:57 AM
Guess i'll just wait till then, eh?

Backupo
27-03-2007, 07:17 AM
Not in the sense of a Paladin can't tank, just the fact that blizzard so far have failed at making it properly viable, as a Paladin i want paladins to be viable, it's just we're not -as good- and should be, if not better, than the other tank classes.

Celinde
27-03-2007, 02:14 PM
I reckon I've seen Blizzard saying you will never see any class matching a protection warrior in tanking.

Backupo
27-03-2007, 10:33 PM
Feral druids were a superior choice pre-nerf, and now they're pretty much equal, i don't see why the coveted most-defensive-class-in-the-game shouldn't be equal and/or better.

miganto
27-03-2007, 10:58 PM
i know it's not meant to be here, but :P Paladins, in my eyes, (this is an opinion based on many games and books, not just wow) were the main defensive role. They were made to defend nobles/kings etc. They werent built to kill fast, as such, they we just elite defensive classes that could heal and keep the person they were protecting alive (sounds like a tank huh? :P)
Warriors are tanky, front line people, but they are also v offensive, they didnt just put their shield up and wait for sorcerers/bowmen to kill, they got stuck in and waved their sword a lot too. So i came to wow thinking that pallys should be the 'most' defensive class, like they are in many many games.

I wish this would put us at least 'on par' with warriors =)

Celinde
28-03-2007, 06:47 AM
Feral druids were a superior choice pre-nerf, and now they're pretty much equal, i don't see why the coveted most-defensive-class-in-the-game shouldn't be equal and/or better.

Feral druids were superior tanking several mobs, yes.
Why do you think they got nerfed?
Yes, that is right, they were better than the primary tank class in certain situations.

Paladins, as well as druids are a hybrd class. I'm not sure what you thought, but Blizzard's intention was not to replace warriors as main tanks with paladins in the expansion, just because the protection tree got a revamp.

And formally paladins are a "more melee oriented hybrid", not the "most-defensive-class-in-the-game".

miganto
28-03-2007, 07:27 AM
nerf is just the opposite of buff, doesnt mean they were made 'bad' at the role. The patch 'did' make them worse than they were at tanking, but not bad, therefore a nerf to their tanking abilities ;)

Backupo
28-03-2007, 07:30 AM
We are always coveted as The most defensive class, we never die, we have 0 dps, this is known by everyone on every server.

As for lore, read miganto's post..


"Primary tanking class" you might wanna read blizzard posts a little more often, there is no primary tank class, infact, warriors too are a hybrid, and so are priests.


And paladins have had these class descriptions over WoW's period: The Defensive Hybrid, The Melee Hybrid, The "Tank/heal" Hybrid, The "Support" class.

Given to them by Blizzard, i think most, if not all, paladins wished that the latest "Tank/Heal" would actually prevail, but it seems blizzard have fucked it up again.


Ohwell.

Just for the record, Warriors are the "Tank/Dps" hybrid.

There's no reason they should be able to tank better than a Paladin, and vice versa.

Backupo
28-03-2007, 07:33 AM
On a sidenote; Why, exactly, do you believe, by your logic, that a paladin is a superior healer to a priest ? Surely the "Pure healing class" should be better ?

Ah, no, wait... priests are a hybrid too, and have been labeled as such for 4 months now.

Celinde
28-03-2007, 04:51 PM
I do not think paladins would beat priests healing on most occasions, if we're talking PvE and not including surviveability.

I must admit I'm a tad puzzled over you saying that there are no hybrids, well that everything is a damn hybrid. Truth is priests are officially labeled as "Primary Healer" while paladins are labeled as "Hybrid, Secondary Healer". Druids are labeled a hybrid class as well, and it is specifically said that "Animal forms are not as powerful as their counterpart classes". Even warriors got a label, and to no surprise it is "Primary Tank".

I don't get why people are so damn displeased with being plated healers with awesome surviveability, not far behind the primary healers, with superior support abilities.

Earlier in this thread you said that paladins should be at least as capable tanks as warriors although you wanted them to be superior, in another thread you said that paladins should be the primary healers, in this thread you said paladins even were superior healers to priests and deny classes got specific roles given to them by Blizzard.

Instead of arguing with everyone and everything all the time you could try to adapt to the roles Blizzard has given you, and that role is primary a supportive healer, and help this dude out who wants some advice on his talent build instead of trying to find reasons paladins should be a hybrid class but still at least match the counterpart classes' prowess.

miganto
28-03-2007, 05:48 PM
You need a hug =)

If priests are 'the primary healers' why are they so good at dps/support?
If warriors are 'the primary tanks' why are they so good at dps, and even used in raids as dps?

What backup was saying is that the 'primary role classes' actually seem to have 2 definitive roles, and excel at them when specced correctly, whereas the hybrid classes might only be very good at 1 in a raid sense.

When paladins spec a certain way, they limit their other 'hybrid' abilities a hell of a lot. Such as a warrior being prot isnt a high dps'er, in the same way a paladin who is prot is certainly not qualified to be a raid healer throughout the raid.

You mention Blizzard assigning us roles. If they give us the talents to spec as a defensive tank, then why should we not be able to tank the end game? Is that tree purely for 10/5man content, and paladins only role in raids will be a healer? Some paladins did not roll to be a healer, they rolled to be a hybrid, or to be a tank, or dps. A paladin cannot off tank in raids if they are holy spec, nor retribution spec, so saying they have awesome surviability is limited, as their gear is partially sub plate to get full healing capabilities.

Are blizzard forcing us to be healers in end game raids? ATM, it seems so, and this is what we feel is wrong. If priests were only allowed to be healers, and their dps was not allowed, or warriors were only allowed to be tank, not dps either, then i'm sure their opinions would be voiced just as loudly as our own.

If we spec correctly, we believe we should be on par, or just below the 'main' class in the specific role, not too inferior to be able to play it, and told to heal just because we have healing buttons. I have tank buttons too, so according to that logic, i am to tank.

I do not mind losing my hybridness to be more on par with the 'main role' class. This could be in the talent tree, such as '+stam, -healing' as you go down the prot tree, '+healing, -sp damage' for holy, and '+sp damage. -healing' for retri. (all just made up then as examples)

You say we should be pleased with being plated healers, why should that talent tree be the only one we should play in end game? We have the talents, and the gear to play all 3 roles very well, we just need the added push (extra stam for instance) and the stigmatisms to go, and then we will be happy..... (well, i will, at least :))

Celinde
28-03-2007, 06:12 PM
Yeah, sure, I'd love to be the class that can do anything as good as anyone as well, but it ain't going to happend.
Paladins are not that far behind warriors or druids when it comes to tanking as you make it sound.

Warriors and priests got their dps capped due to aggro, or so I heard, I've never counted on it since I'm not overly concerned about it right now. I can promise you, warriors wouldn't have as good surviveability or dps if they could heal and priests wouldn't excell at healing or dps if they could survive someone sneezing at them, this my friend is called balance.

And sure, you could put in a system where one spec majorly reduces your other aspects, but in the end you will see that it is unfair to create a class able to excell at all areas in the game.

People have -always- been complaining about paladins not being able to dps like a dps class or tank like a warrior. Blizzard has actually now given the paladin the option to tank to quite some extent.

Why did they to this? Yes you two are right, all classes got the option to take on another role, except the paladin and the dps classes, the difference being that paladins are officially labeled hybrids. Now they can tank, but they can't match warriors. Be happy that you got the mere possibility to take on a different role instead of being discontent.

miganto
28-03-2007, 06:21 PM
Hmm guess you've not tried healing whilst tanking as a paladin then? it' wipes 1/4 - 1/3 of your 'threat making bar' means you cannot block/parry, takes 2x+ longer than if you werent being hit, and you arent generating threat for those seconds.....so no, in practice, we cannot heal whilst tanking, so are effectively, a warrior. so.....give me the tanking ;)

Oh and if we are not that far behind warriors at tanking, why are people so against letting us just tank karaz, let alone the 25 mans?

Celinde
28-03-2007, 06:40 PM
Hmm guess you've not tried healing whilst tanking as a paladin then? it' wipes 1/4 - 1/3 of your 'threat making bar' means you cannot block/parry, takes 2x+ longer than if you werent being hit, and you arent generating threat for those seconds.....so no, in practice, we cannot heal whilst tanking, so are effectively, a warrior. so.....give me the tanking ;)


That just doesn't make any sence and has nothing to do with what I said, no class can fulfill two roles at a same time, and I never said you could.
A druid can't fulfill a role as mainhealer while tanking either, and yet they don't match a warrior's prowess. Blizzard intended this and saw that it was good.

As for tanking in 25-mans, sure you need the gear to match the task, and I doubt you'll make main tank anyway since you have inferior threat generation as well as lower base health. That doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to off-tank something. To be honest I'm not sure how anyone would deem it a good idea to have someone in your guild/raid setup off-tanking this and that when another class is more suited for the job though.

Backupo
28-03-2007, 07:09 PM
I do not think paladins would beat priests healing on most occasions, if we're talking PvE and not including surviveability.

I must admit I'm a tad puzzled over you saying that there are no hybrids, well that everything is a damn hybrid. Truth is priests are officially labeled as "Primary Healer" while paladins are labeled as "Hybrid, Secondary Healer". Druids are labeled a hybrid class as well, and it is specifically said that "Animal forms are not as powerful as their counterpart classes". Even warriors got a label, and to no surprise it is "Primary Tank".

I don't get why people are so damn displeased with being plated healers with awesome surviveability, not far behind the primary healers, with superior support abilities.

Earlier in this thread you said that paladins should be at least as capable tanks as warriors although you wanted them to be superior, in another thread you said that paladins should be the primary healers, in this thread you said paladins even were superior healers to priests and deny classes got specific roles given to them by Blizzard.

Instead of arguing with everyone and everything all the time you could try to adapt to the roles Blizzard has given you, and that role is primary a supportive healer, and help this dude out who wants some advice on his talent build instead of trying to find reasons paladins should be a hybrid class but still at least match the counterpart classes' prowess.

What on earth are you talking about ?


You talk as if you were from when WoW was in BETA, your labels are as old as that, atleast.

These are the current descriptions for the classes you gave, officially given by Blizzard:

Paladin - Tank/Heal hybrid.

Warrior - Tank/DPS hybrid.

Druid - Roleshifter, roles are equally as powerful as their primary classes, in terms of threat, dps, mitigation for example, yet they lack primary abilitys such as blinds, stunlock, vanish, charge, stances.

Shaman - DPS/Heal hybrid.

These descriptions were officially given by kalgan, otherwise known as Tom Shilton, lead designer for World of Warcraft.

Your "Truth" is nothing but 2 year old descriptions, and hold no argument at this stage in time.

Because many Paladins rolled it to be a holy-warrior, and didn't expect to be a healer, if you look at the original description from BETA, you will see why.

And FYI, i like healing, i enjoy it in both PvP and PvE, it's the principle that fucks me off.

I didn't say i wanted Paladins to be superior, i said they should be equal, and it's a pisstake they're not, as if anything, we should be. (yet again, i'd prefer it to be equal across all fields.)

Please link me to a thread where i said i "wanted paladins to be primary healers" we are, we have been since people first stepped foot in MC and realised we couldn't melee for crap, and had no reason to melee, we've become even more so since BC.

I didn't deny, you obviously haven't read any blizzard posts since '05.

And yes, Paladins are the superior single-target healers, and are more mana-efficient group healers, go look up some posts in the priest/paladin forums comparing the two with facts, they are inferior, and pissed for that fact.

Backupo
28-03-2007, 07:19 PM
Yeah, sure, I'd love to be the class that can do anything as good as anyone as well, but it ain't going to happend.
Paladins are not that far behind warriors or druids when it comes to tanking as you make it sound.

Warriors and priests got their dps capped due to aggro, or so I heard, I've never counted on it since I'm not overly concerned about it right now. I can promise you, warriors wouldn't have as good surviveability or dps if they could heal and priests wouldn't excell at healing or dps if they could survive someone sneezing at them, this my friend is called balance.

And sure, you could put in a system where one spec majorly reduces your other aspects, but in the end you will see that it is unfair to create a class able to excell at all areas in the game.

People have -always- been complaining about paladins not being able to dps like a dps class or tank like a warrior. Blizzard has actually now given the paladin the option to tank to quite some extent.

Why did they to this? Yes you two are right, all classes got the option to take on another role, except the paladin and the dps classes, the difference being that paladins are officially labeled hybrids. Now they can tank, but they can't match warriors. Be happy that you got the mere possibility to take on a different role instead of being discontent.

I guess you forgot that there were these things called 'talent tree's' these restrict people from excelling, or being equal at doing every role at one period of time.

Yes they are, we have 1500 less hp than a warrior, it's next to impossible to get crit/crushing immune, and have 5% less base mitigation, and that's just warriors, we look terrible compared to a druids HP, not to mention their mitigation is almost on-par.

As a hybrid, one spec DOES greatly reduce your others, when was the last time you saw a prot paladin get a 2h out and dps, heal well ? no, it's not gonna happen.

Don't say "spec holy/prot mix", you lose a further 5% mitigation without going into retri, gimping our tanking even more.

No no, paladins have always complained about not being viable at dpsing, go look at imp. lotp, unleashed rage for examples for viability, it doesn't mean we are better at dps, it means we get a reason to go in there and hit things.


"Except the Paladin" so why, may i ask, is this ? Because, last time i looked, Elemental got it's mana longevity issue sorted, enhancement got it's good dps, almost on-par, and it's viability move, and resto is as good as healing as it has been forever. (which is viable, not great, but viable, mana tide isn't replaceable.)

Yes, i long at the possibility of speccing protection to tank some fucking AoE trash, oh the glory, then again, why would you be discontent, you're the pet dps class out-dpsing mages, but hey, everyone knows locks are blizzards little love bunnys <3.

Backupo
28-03-2007, 07:23 PM
That just doesn't make any sence and has nothing to do with what I said, no class can fulfill two roles at a same time, and I never said you could.
A druid can't fulfill a role as mainhealer while tanking either, and yet they don't match a warrior's prowess. Blizzard intended this and saw that it was good.

As for tanking in 25-mans, sure you need the gear to match the task, and I doubt you'll make main tank anyway since you have inferior threat generation as well as lower base health. That doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to off-tank something. To be honest I'm not sure how anyone would deem it a good idea to have someone in your guild/raid setup off-tanking this and that when another class is more suited for the job though.


We have superior burst threat, and with 100 spell damage better scaling and TPS, our problem is 5% less mitigation and 1500 less hp, as base, nothing to do with the terrible, terrible set blizzard have given for tanking.


And yes, that's the problem we still only have one viable role, whilst almost every other class excels at two or even three, i don't see how you can't see this is distressing/annoying to a hybrid.

And the most annoying thing is, warriors, the supposed primary class, has had the option since day 1 to go to a raid as fury, dps on trash/a particular boss, and then, on the next boss, which perhaps requires an extra tank, pulls out his tank gear and OT's a mob, the very meaning of a hybrid class.

Ohwell, here's hoping blizzard realise what a hybrid is.

Celinde
28-03-2007, 10:02 PM
Paladins got their tanking abilities sorted. Blizzard meant for paladins to be able to tank, and they are.
They also said there will be distinctions between the classes' tanking abilities, and there is.

It is perfectly viable when you've picked up proper gear to tank, but you will have less base health than a warrior or a druid in bear form, and most likely contunue to have 5% less damage mitigation.

You will fit into certain situations better than a warrior or druid and vice versa.

And don't say you don't want paladins as a superior tank class, you want them to have the same, health, mitigation and threat generation as a warrior, at the same time as their abilities to tank multiple mobs is already superior to some extent.
That would be fair since they can visit a trainer and spec to become awesome healers.

I didn't say i wanted Paladins to be superior, i said they should be equal, and it's a pisstake they're not, as if anything, we should be. (yet again, i'd prefer it to be equal across all fields.)

Not in the sense of a Paladin can't tank, just the fact that blizzard so far have failed at making it properly viable, as a Paladin i want paladins to be viable, it's just we're not -as good- and should be, if not better, than the other tank classes.

I'm not saying the paladin class is perfect, but I believe that Blizzard actually constantly monitor how every class is doing in certain situations and thats why they continue to tweak them. I can promise you that Blizzard don't put in random talents/gear/abilities and pick numbers out of the thin air, they test their implements through and through.
Just put some faith in their work, adapt, make the best out of the situation and progress.

Backupo
29-03-2007, 06:46 AM
Paladins got their tanking abilities sorted. Blizzard meant for paladins to be able to tank, and they are.
They also said there will be distinctions between the classes' tanking abilities, and there is.

It is perfectly viable when you've picked up proper gear to tank, but you will have less base health than a warrior or a druid in bear form, and most likely contunue to have 5% less damage mitigation.

You will fit into certain situations better than a warrior or druid and vice versa.

And don't say you don't want paladins as a superior tank class, you want them to have the same, health, mitigation and threat generation as a warrior, at the same time as their abilities to tank multiple mobs is already superior to some extent.
That would be fair since they can visit a trainer and spec to become awesome healers.









I'm not saying the paladin class is perfect, but I believe that Blizzard actually constantly monitor how every class is doing in certain situations and thats why they continue to tweak them. I can promise you that Blizzard don't put in random talents/gear/abilities and pick numbers out of the thin air, they test their implements through and through.
Just put some faith in their work, adapt, make the best out of the situation and progress.

No, we didn't, i could tank 5-mans pre-BC, almost nothing has changed in terms of viability, hell, paladins tanked MC for the novelty aspect in old-WoW, it doesn't mean we were viable in any respect, and we're still not.

Blizzard 'meant' to give every hybrid equal viability on every role, they've succeeded with shamans to some extent, why not paladins ?

Disctinctions in tanking lead to exactly why it's a bad idea to even attempt multiple tank classes, if you can't soak up the same damage as a warrior, you're not a good tank, that is your role, hold threat, absorb damage, hey, we can do the first one fine, shame we're terrible at the second.


Why should we have less HP/mitigation, because we can tank 1 pack of aoe mobs better ? it's not like warriors can't aoe tank, and it's not like a guild is gonna suddenly halt progress because of trash.

Better situations being, aoe trash. Yay!

It's not fair! they can go to the trainer and spec to have raid-viable dps! :( oh...wait..yeah respeccing costs 50g.


I'm not gonna put faith into their work, they've yet to prove they can do anything for Paladins that doesn't involve healbotting, whilst at the same time giving other hybrids very viable roles, like a kick in the teeth.

And like i said, it's a sad game when a supposed 'primary' class, fills two roles far better than a 'hybrid'.

Celeres
29-03-2007, 07:44 AM
Since TBC I have been prot - with a short period holy - and have tanked every 5 man without any problems so far. And having great fun doing so.

We do have some problems though:

- Itimisation
- Lower base HP than warriors
- Migitation based on procs

Besides that paladins needs to accept that if you wanna be a "reliable" tank, you cant have a large mana pool and mana regeneration with high +spelldmg and +healing. A tanking palading gotta base items on STA, defence, block, parry etc. with +spelldmg for threath.

I got around 14.000 hp, 5.600 mana buffed, around 13.800 armor with 518 defence and >WHEN< my redoubt procs I got 107% total dodge, parry, block chance - but thats purely based on a proc (luck)...

At the same time I heal for around 550 with my flash, so cant really be a "reliable" healer atm.

For tanking roles (warriors, druids, paladins) see blue response here:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=240294041&postId=2401324130&sid=1#0

Just my 2 cents.

Shadowfury
29-03-2007, 09:18 AM
Disctinctions in tanking lead to exactly why it's a bad idea to even attempt multiple tank classes, if you can't soak up the same damage as a warrior, you're not a good tank, that is your role, hold threat, absorb damage, hey, we can do the first one fine, shame we're terrible at the second.
Well get some better gear. But you cant be a healer and a tank like a warrior. A warrior is only a melee based class. If you could tank like them, dps like them with the same amount of hp / armor / dodge / block / parry. WHO would ever again want a warrior?

Why should we have less HP/mitigation, because we can tank 1 pack of aoe mobs better ? it's not like warriors can't aoe tank, and it's not like a guild is gonna suddenly halt progress because of trash.
Because you still have a mana bar and can heal. And btw there are some very nasty trash mobs in this game.

It's not fair! they can go to the trainer and spec to have raid-viable dps! :( oh...wait..yeah respeccing costs 50g.
Its not fair, you can go to the trainer and spec to have raid-viable healing!

I'm not gonna put faith into their work, they've yet to prove they can do anything for Paladins that doesn't involve healbotting, whilst at the same time giving other hybrids very viable roles, like a kick in the teeth.
buffbotting maybe?

And like i said, it's a sad game when a supposed 'primary' class, fills two roles far better than a 'hybrid'.
You mean cause a warrior can tank and dps? If he is dps he most likely cant tank that good. If he is prot he most likely cant dps that good. But once again. Both roles are melee based.

Druid - Roleshifter, roles are equally as powerful as their primary classes, in terms of threat, dps, mitigation for example, yet they lack primary abilitys such as blinds, stunlock, vanish, charge, stances.
Poor druids dont have charge :( .. oh wait, whats that then? We arent better tanks as warriors, we arent better dps than any of the dps classes, but we have charge

Not in the sense of a Paladin can't tank, just the fact that blizzard so far have failed at making it properly viable, as a Paladin i want paladins to be viable, it's just we're not -as good- and should be, if not better, than the other tank classes.
i loled. So you want to tank better than a warrior or a druid? But still be abled to heal (even if not that good)? And even if druids where a superior choise for tanking pre-nerf, a good prot warrior still was better, maybe druids had more armor and hp but the need it, no parry no block
Second time: If you could tank like them, dps like them with the same amount of hp / armor / dodge / block / parry. WHO would ever again want a warrior?
and tbh
Paladins are far more hybrid than a warrior will ever be.

Blizzard: Warriors are the melee-centered class. These characters are as tough as nails and masters of weaponry and tactics. The special abilities of the warrior are naturally combat-oriented.

Whilste a Paladin can tank ( you even said that 5mans are tankable) and heal (you said they are some of the best healers if not THE best)


@ miganto:
If a priest is specced for healin he should be awesome in healing. If they are that good in dps they will have lesser healing.
And for the warrior question read the blizzard comment above.

Backupo
29-03-2007, 10:20 AM
Well get some better gear. But you cant be a healer and a tank like a warrior. A warrior is only a melee based class. If you could tank like them, dps like them with the same amount of hp / armor / dodge / block / parry. WHO would ever again want a warrior?

----

I'm a holy Paladin, i don't need better gear, i need to know the fucking facts, and they are that i would have, in equal gear, 1.5k less hp, and 5% less mitigation, not to mention next to impossible to be crit-immune.


Because you still have a mana bar and can heal. And btw there are some very nasty trash mobs in this game.

---

I have a mana bar, and the only reason Paladins are good healers is because of illumination, the holy talent, otherwise we might aswell roll over. Trash is not a good enough excuse to bring a Paladin tank, it's as simple as that.


Its not fair, you can go to the trainer and spec to have raid-viable healing!


---

Before being a smart-arse, you might wanna check what i was actually replying to, but nevermind, you proved my point right for me.


buffbotting maybe?

---

Every class bar-rogues has buffing, it's not a role.


You mean cause a warrior can tank and dps? If he is dps he most likely cant tank that good. If he is prot he most likely cant dps that good. But once again. Both roles are melee based.

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I mean because a fury warriors for the past two years have been able go to a raid, dish out suberb dps, and then when an event requires another tank, stick on his tanking kit and still be crushing/crit immune, something a paladin has NEVER been able to do, you don't think that's the slightest bit retarded ? them being the primary class.

Poor druids dont have charge .. oh wait, whats that then? We arent better tanks as warriors, we arent better dps than any of the dps classes, but we have charge

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You don't have a charge, you idiot, you use rage for a charge-like ability that locks a spellschool, warriors use charge to gain rage. (Good idea to actually know your class abilitys before commenting.)

You are also equal tanks, and were being exploited before the nerf instead of warriors because you were superior, plenty of hardcore, good, raiding guilds use MT druids.



i loled. So you want to tank better than a warrior or a druid? But still be abled to heal (even if not that good)? And even if druids where a superior choise for tanking pre-nerf, a good prot warrior still was better, maybe druids had more armor and hp but the need it, no parry no block
Second time: If you could tank like them, dps like them with the same amount of hp / armor / dodge / block / parry. WHO would ever again want a warrior?
and tbh
Paladins are far more hybrid than a warrior will ever be.

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No, i want to be equal, as stated by me several times, all i did was point out how ironic it is seeing as we're labeled the-most-defensive-class.

Druids can heal (even if not that good.) meaning shite, and meaning they can heal as well as a prot warrior can dps.

No, a prot warrior was not better, as stated by alot of reliable sources, and plain old maths.

We CANNOT dps as any spec, and i mean viable- dps, we do not have it.

We can heal well, just as warriors can dps well IF SPECCED FOR IT.

Take a warrior for, oh let me see, 1k hp more, 300 attack power more, them being a hybrid technically, fullfilling two roles. Yep, like i thought, alot of reason to take warriors, even multiple.

No, we're not, and never have been, you have to be retarded not to see that.





Blizzard: Warriors are the melee-centered class. These characters are as tough as nails and masters of weaponry and tactics. The special abilities of the warrior are naturally combat-oriented.

Whilste a Paladin can tank ( you even said that 5mans are tankable) and heal (you said they are some of the best healers if not THE best)


Grats on using a description made 2 years ago, yet again, just to get this clear, class descriptions are:


Warrior - Tank/dps hybrid

Paladin - Tank/Heal hybrid

Priest - DPS/Heal hybrid.

Whilst a Warrior can dps, (even in 25-man raids) and heal ( fury warriors are some of the best dps in the game, if not THE if they were to not worry about threat.)



@ miganto:
If a priest is specced for healin he should be awesome in healing. If they are that good in dps they will have lesser healing.
And for the warrior question read the blizzard comment above.


So just like a paladin will be shit at healing if specced for tanking, and vice versa, funnily enough though, priest are actually viable in raids at the both.


No thanks, i'd rather use up-to-date BC descriptions, stop being a fool.

Kenny
30-03-2007, 12:48 AM
You gain Divine Shield
Wall of text's FALLONYOUATTACK failed, you are immune.

miganto
30-03-2007, 02:28 AM
I am surprised so far that no-one has said that paladins can use bubbles to stop 'all' attacks on them, totally unfair in tanking.....

(so many other stupid reasons are given by people, why not that one ;))

Kenny
30-03-2007, 02:32 AM
I am surprised so far that no-one has said that paladins can use bubbles to stop 'all' attacks on them, totally unfair in tanking.....

(so many other stupid reasons are given by people, why not that one ;))

Jesus christ.. I hope that wasn't a serious post by you.

(But, just in case it was: Bubble means you lose aggro, obviously.)

miganto
30-03-2007, 02:46 AM
i know it does =D What i meant was, it's a stupid reason, due to losing aggro, yet most of the reasons and 'ideas' people have when it comes to pally tanking are just as moronic, but in their heads work, like 'well you can heal when you tank, so you're obviously better than warriors'......

anywho, kinda gave it away with '(so many other stupid reasons are given by people, why not that one ) at the end :P

Celeres
30-03-2007, 07:28 AM
A protection paladin can use the bubble while tanking - IF - the paladin know what he is doing.

If the pala is about to die a quick bubble timed with a RD on the party member where the mob is then heading is great. If timed correctly mob will then return and "hit" bubble - when RD is out, simply remove bubble like you remove any other "buff" and mob havent hit any other party member while you bubbled.

So if your really serious about being a tanking pala - then use all the options given to you even bubble tanking :)

And yes I use this and it works perfect.

Haar
30-03-2007, 11:32 PM
Very good point there a simple macro hit once or twice would work perfectly. good idea Celeres

Faylin
31-03-2007, 02:29 AM
I assume this requires the mob to be tauntable? I'm not an experienced palli tanker but I assume the mechanics for RD are the same as for Taunt?

miganto
31-03-2007, 03:44 AM
Aye, on most bosses that you'd need the extra few seconds to get a heal in, the mobs are usually untauntable.

So on the crappy 5man bosses, maybe, but not in karaz+

Still should work though, so a good tactic if needed =)

Backupo
31-03-2007, 07:38 AM
It doesn't even compare to shieldwall, if we are going to talk cds.

it's 3 seconds immunity, technically, so that's 1 slow hitting boss swing absorbed, like i said...SW>3 second immunity.

Parcival
03-04-2007, 08:55 AM
Just reading this thread now sorry for late response :)
If you spec tankadin, try this macro:

/cast [help] Blessing of Protection; [target=targettarget,help] Blessing of Protection

Its a 'taunt'like ability which works on mobs immune to taunt. Just remember to not cast it if the mobs aggro is on yourself :p