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Exting
19-02-2007, 05:35 PM
Mage and Druid characters for sale...

I am selling my account with the druid and mage on and am looking for any interest. The price will not be too much as i am simply looking for a few offers. suprise me. The mage is currently lvl 67 and has some decent gear and alot of money worth of items in the bank, the druid is lvl 60 still with feral/resto gear and decent stuff in bank, the characters are high lvl in tailoring - 365 and herbalism -330. Just looking for some interest on the forum.

E-mail = Stuza_sneider@hotmail.com
Also msn address

Thanks very much.

P.s this offer stands until the start of March.

Moomonde
19-02-2007, 06:05 PM
http://www.anmaef.ru/633/2002-05-15news12-bribe.jpg

I've give you an air guitar

Karadros
19-02-2007, 06:11 PM
Ten quid

Exting
20-02-2007, 12:26 PM
nice serious offer i see...

Über
20-02-2007, 12:47 PM
Well, you didn't seriously expect to receive some proper offers from posting the WTS in SSE, did you? :)

*waits for Ogg to show up in this thread to tell a joke about Orde*

Exting
20-02-2007, 01:08 PM
not really , but it was worth a try, guess the characters are getting deleted,

Later :?

Haar
20-02-2007, 01:51 PM
Exting dont make me come all the way over to where you live and beat you up and down the place with a wet fish! Why you selling your account ya nub? :(

Tyrannis
20-02-2007, 01:55 PM
nice one Stu

Could have told me first

BeautyThief
20-02-2007, 03:55 PM
why the hell would somebody buy 2 char on the same server that he already layes on ? and also since you dont want much money for it why not just keep it and stopp paying the subscibions for wow? since it seems not to be about money...then it must be that you addicted and should just pond you computer(lot more moeny) get a job and i dont know maby get a girlfrind or a mistress so you have something to do with your extra free time. but im not buying it and honestly dont care if your selling it plus since you so bluntly put it here for sale i guess they will just be earesed.

p.s. all grammar and spelling errors are there so you have harder time reading this and think less of me.

Legendfierce
20-02-2007, 03:58 PM
:d

Über
20-02-2007, 05:09 PM
why the hell would somebody buy 2 char on the same server that he already layes on ? and also since you dont want much money for it why not just keep it and stopp paying the subscibions for wow? since it seems not to be about money...then it must be that you addicted and should just pond you computer(lot more moeny) get a job and i dont know maby get a girlfrind or a mistress so you have something to do with your extra free time. but im not buying it and honestly dont care if your selling it plus since you so bluntly put it here for sale i guess they will just be earesed.

p.s. all grammar and spelling errors are there so you have harder time reading this and think less of me.

I... Well.. Uhm.. WTFX?

Exting
20-02-2007, 05:15 PM
why the hell would somebody buy 2 char on the same server that he already layes on ? and also since you dont want much money for it why not just keep it and stopp paying the subscibions for wow? since it seems not to be about money...then it must be that you addicted and should just pond you computer(lot more moeny) get a job and i dont know maby get a girlfrind or a mistress so you have something to do with your extra free time. but im not buying it and honestly dont care if your selling it plus since you so bluntly put it here for sale i guess they will just be earesed.

p.s. all grammar and spelling errors are there so you have harder time reading this and think less of me.

You suck.

Moomonde
20-02-2007, 05:38 PM
stu has a boyfriend, dunno about the job, he's a geordie so i'm guessing he doesnt.

That's reet good

Toshiro
20-02-2007, 05:45 PM
Exting = geordie?

Ogg
20-02-2007, 05:48 PM
why the hell would somebody buy 2 char on the same server that he already layes on ? and also since you dont want much money for it why not just keep it and stopp paying the subscibions for wow? since it seems not to be about money...then it must be that you addicted and should just pond you computer(lot more moeny) get a job and i dont know maby get a girlfrind or a mistress so you have something to do with your extra free time. but im not buying it and honestly dont care if your selling it plus since you so bluntly put it here for sale i guess they will just be earesed.

p.s. all grammar and spelling errors are there so you have harder time reading this and think less of me.

Troll.

You're worse than Orde seriously, at l

Meri
20-02-2007, 06:45 PM
/reported

Haar
20-02-2007, 08:15 PM
I don't understand these things. Ogg sold his warrior for X amount with little to no greef and alot of oh noes don't go, while Exting get /reported.

Stim
20-02-2007, 08:19 PM
It's faen, just l2p XD

Über
20-02-2007, 08:41 PM
I don't understand these things. Ogg sold his warrior for X amount with little to no greef and alot of oh noes don't go, while Exting get /reported.

I guess Meri wasn't around at that time?

captpicard
20-02-2007, 08:57 PM
Or(de) thats what he wants you to think! Your all part of a

Exting
20-02-2007, 11:48 PM
yes im a geordie and whoever reported me can go fuck himself.

Finally the characters are to be deleted tommorow

Later SSe.

Toshiro
20-02-2007, 11:54 PM
yes im a geordie and whoever reported me can go fuck himself.

Finally the characters are to be deleted tommorow

Later SSe.

dont delete them yet. I want to talk to you about them.

Exting
21-02-2007, 01:29 AM
yes im a geordie and whoever reported me can go fuck himself.

Finally the characters are to be deleted tommorow

Later SSe.

dont delete them yet. I want to talk to you about them.

stuza_sneider@hotmail.com

Meri
21-02-2007, 01:33 AM
Yes I prolly wasnt around at the time. I will report any gold, item, or characterselling I see here. And I think the moderators should also take a strict line in this and not allow any topics concerning activities that are strictly against the Blizzard TOS. After all it is totally hypocritical to whine about goldseller spam if the unofficial forum doesnt have a strict ban on any similar activity.
So yeah, sure you can ban me and have your fun, or do the right thing and strcitly forbid stuff that goes against the TOS.

Robinvi
21-02-2007, 02:17 AM
Nekkid pix plx

Karadros
21-02-2007, 04:06 AM
Eleven quid then?

Ogg
21-02-2007, 11:42 AM
Yes I prolly wasnt around at the time. I will report any gold, item, or characterselling I see here. And I think the moderators should also take a strict line in this and not allow any topics concerning activities that are strictly against the Blizzard TOS. After all it is totally hypocritical to whine about goldseller spam if the unofficial forum doesnt have a strict ban on any similar activity.
So yeah, sure you can ban me and have your fun, or do the right thing and strcitly forbid stuff that goes against the TOS.

It is COMPLETELY legal for Exting to sell his account, if he sells the entire "game" he bought - meaning that he gives CD-key, e-mail, and of course, all other account information.

Disclaimer: If some mod finds my language a bit harsh, please merely censor it out, don't delete the entire post, plz.

Kinshara
21-02-2007, 12:15 PM
It is COMPLETELY legal for Exting to sell his account, if he sells the entire "game" he bought - meaning that he gives CD-key, e-mail, and of course, all other account information.

It's legal, but it's still against the TOS... so Blizzard can (and will) ban the account if they know it has been transferred.

I'd never bother reporting it myself -- don't particularly care if someone quitting the game hands it over to another player, but Meri is free to report it if she wishes. Though it doesn't seem to be a popular decision :)

Faylin
21-02-2007, 12:16 PM
Although I absolutely have no problem with the transfer of an account from one person to the other, it -is- stated rather clearly in the TOS that it is indeed not allowed:

Ownership/Selling of the Account or Virtual Items.
Blizzard does not recognize the transfer of Accounts. You may not purchase, sell, gift or trade any Account, or offer to purchase, sell, gift or trade any Account, and any such attempt shall be null and void. Blizzard owns, has licensed, or otherwise has rights to all of the content that appears in the Program. You agree that you have no right or title in or to any such content, including the virtual goods or currency appearing or originating in the Game, or any other attributes associated with the Account or stored on the Service. Blizzard does not recognize any virtual property transfers executed outside of the Game or the purported sale, gift or trade in the "real world" of anything related to the Game. Accordingly, you may not sell items for "real" money or otherwise exchange items for value outside of the Game.

There are a lot of people that get mad about goldselling, and use the TOS to back their statements up.

So in order to keep the discussion clean, let's from now on not use the TOS as a reference of what is acceptable or not: as clearly one forbidden thing is seen as immoral while the other is not.

Ogg
21-02-2007, 12:27 PM
It is COMPLETELY legal for Exting to sell his account, if he sells the entire "game" he bought - meaning that he gives CD-key, e-mail, and of course, all other account information.

It's legal, but it's still against the TOS... so Blizzard can (and will) ban the account if they know it has been transferred.

I'd never bother reporting it myself -- don't particularly care if someone quitting the game hands it over to another player, but Meri is free to report it if she wishes. Though it doesn't seem to be a popular decision :)

No. It is not against the TOS.

Faylin
21-02-2007, 12:30 PM
I just quoted em, please tell me where I misread? (genuinly curious)

.... You may not purchase, sell, gift or trade any Account....

source (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html)

Ogg
21-02-2007, 12:32 PM
I just quoted em, please tell me where I misread? (genuinly curious)

.... You may not purchase, sell, gift or trade any Account....

source (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html)

The exception being if you sell your entire -game-.

This was what I did, Munchies might not have the box I installed my game from in the first place, but I had to buy a new copy to start playing again.

Oogie
21-02-2007, 12:39 PM
All intellectual property belongs to Blizzard.

Ogg, how would you like it if someone (3rd party) sold something of yours?! (Not that Blizz care too much 8m x£7 is lots!)

Kinshara
21-02-2007, 12:51 PM
I just quoted em, please tell me where I misread? (genuinly curious)

.... You may not purchase, sell, gift or trade any Account....

source (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html)

The exception being if you sell your entire -game-.

This was what I did, Munchies might not have the box I installed my game from in the first place, but I had to buy a new copy to start playing again.

Incorrect. It's still against the terms of service. The blues have repeatedly stressed this whenever the question comes up on the forums.

You can sell the game media and key, but the buyer has to establish a new account to abide by the terms of service. If they don't, blizzard can withhold the service (ban the original account).

Edit: Technically, even letting a friend play on your account, on your machine violates the TOS. The only other person that can play on an account would be a child of the original player, so long as that child is a minor.

This is routinely ignored by players, of course, and Blizzard just has to put up with it most of the time because they usually can't prove the account was transferred or shared.

Edit #2: I'm not saying this is a fantastically good policy that I 100% agree with. I don't. Just that it is that way.

Moomonde
21-02-2007, 03:58 PM
I'd like to thank stu for creating such a wonderful draam thread.

Thanks mate

Hoshingen
21-02-2007, 06:18 PM
/drama

Duckman
21-02-2007, 07:30 PM
I couldn't care less about someone selling there account.. nothing wrong with that imo. Tho I would never buy one myself I don't see anything wrong in making some money instead of just deleteing the account.

About the report thing, dude mind your own business really. I don't see how it helps you that his account get banned.




/Ducky

Malakali
21-02-2007, 07:45 PM
OMG REPORTED <-- Lamer

Go die

Gold sellers should be reported

not good players who have earnt the right to sell accounts lol

14 quid? =P

Temmink
21-02-2007, 07:55 PM
OMG REPORTED <-- Lamer

Go die

Gold sellers should be reported

not good players who have earnt the right to sell accounts lol

14 quid? =P

Except you don't earn that right, ever, as it's against the TOS. You guys are all so full of shit to be honest. Blizzard doesn't want it but can't really legally forbid it. You guys see loopholes and claim it's perfectly alright and, judging by the retardedly offensive replies, think it something you earned and can be proud of and anyone objecting to it as it's, like said before, against the TOS deserves to buried under a pile of crap.

Loopholes and ignoring Blizzard and only consider what's best for yourself is the exact reason why you have goldsellers anyway. So yeah, you're just as bad. Except you speak better English i suppose.

Btw, what's with the hostile threatening crap anyway? Are you guys so threatened by a vagina you need show off some e-muscle?

Gruze
21-02-2007, 08:03 PM
The real question is, Who gives a shit?

Moomonde
21-02-2007, 08:07 PM
so far:

Temmink
Meri

Proterra
21-02-2007, 08:33 PM
Btw, what's with the hostile threatening crap anyway? Are you guys so threatened by a vagina you need show off some e-muscle?

it's got nothing to do with gender. its the fact of being incredibly irritating.

Im not sure what Turiel takes on this thread so Ill ask him, me I dont care. If someone wants to sell their account stop freaking whining and threatning to report-since when is that going to affect you or how you play?

geh.

Ogg
21-02-2007, 08:43 PM
I read your post Malakali, and I couldn't quite find any references to my post. Could you please try and maybe use some of the phrases and words I've been using? Would make it all a whole lot easier.

Best regards, Ogg.

Proterra
21-02-2007, 08:44 PM
ogg smells

Ogg
21-02-2007, 09:01 PM
ogg smells

may all your hay wither and burn.

Exting
21-02-2007, 11:54 PM
Yes I prolly wasnt around at the time. I will report any gold, item, or characterselling I see here. And I think the moderators should also take a strict line in this and not allow any topics concerning activities that are strictly against the Blizzard TOS. After all it is totally hypocritical to whine about goldseller spam if the unofficial forum doesnt have a strict ban on any similar activity.
So yeah, sure you can ban me and have your fun, or do the right thing and strcitly forbid stuff that goes against the TOS.

It is COMPLETELY legal for Exting to sell his account, if he sells the entire "game" he bought - meaning that he gives CD-key, e-mail, and of course, all other account information.

Disclaimer: If some mod finds my language a bit harsh, please merely censor it out, don't delete the entire post, plz.
.

takfiri
22-02-2007, 01:29 AM
tos, shmos

Taurusos
22-02-2007, 06:58 AM
The real question is, Gruuuuuuuzeh or not?

Turiel
22-02-2007, 10:22 AM
So, I don't read posts in the Horde forum normally so I didn't see this till someone PM'd me about it.

There's too many posts full of pure bad language and insults. Please post constructively, including if its to argue against someone. If you want to throw around a few mild insults, fine, it happens in every thread, but don't make 10 lines of 'fuck you'. I'll leave the moderators to clear that up.

As for the actual practice of selling accounts and the allowing of such threads on the site, I'm not sure.

So let's consider some points about it:
- It's not illegal.
- It is against the terms of service.
- All players of the game are bound by it.
- The website is not bound by it.
- Breaking the ToS has no legal ramifications.
- Breaking the ToS affects only the account in question.

So those are the facts, here comes my opinion.

Regardless of what the ToS says, I think most would feel that it is THEIR character, that they have spent THEIR time on - and that's the loophole that's used to sell. You sell your time spent, not your characters. And your time spent isn't something Blizzard can claim to own.

This topic came up previously in the moderators forum and we decided to leave it and see what the general community reactions were. For the vast majority, people either support it or don't care, and as we are a community site we go along with the group (there are exceptions, that isn't a 100% rule).

I was curious though, to see how much my T3 rogue was worth, back when this was the top possible gear. $1500. Yep, that's one and a half GRAND. If you're quitting WoW forever, you likely don't give a toss what the ToS says and if someone wants to give me over a thousand euro and accept the risk of transferring the character, then I sure as hell amn't going to turn that down. I'd make sure everyone knew I was quitting though, leave guild, and so on.

So. It's definitely good for the seller. Now let's look at why it's good for Blizzard. Meri - you reported him, they can't/won't prove it, nothing will happen. First of all, it's hard to prove it unless they go get the personal data (something which GMs do not have access to) and quiz the online player. Secondly, and more importantly, if someone does NOT sell their account and just quits, that's lost revenue. By the account being sold, Blizzard retain the subscription revenue. They have to be against it from a public relations perspective, but in reality, they aren't going to do much about it. Sure, they've asked a listing be pulled from ebay here and there, but again, it's all about keeping up appearances.

Maur
22-02-2007, 10:38 AM
Gruze wins!

Meri
22-02-2007, 08:54 PM
You do know that the "buying my time spent" argument is what all ingame for rl cash participants use as their cover, be it goldselling, character selling, item selling, etc. Its been the cover story since Diablo2.(It's never been tested in court whether or not it would hold as companies have been reluctant top take the risk of legitimizing third party sales, and because it hasn't been so intrusive ingame before WoW) If you buy this argument, then you basically can drop all opposition to any ingame content for real life compensation transactions, cause to do otherwise is just hypocritical.
There are tons of things that aren't illegal as per laws, but are against the ToS. Cheating, exploiting, spamming, some forms of hate speech. I think SSE will lose alot of face by allowing any such activity continue. I will continue to report activites against the ToS where ever I see them, to not do so rus against my morals and I would feel any base for putting up my own small fight against IGE and its ilk would be hypocritical.
Also, Turiel, you know very well, that were such threads to become commonplace here, Blizzard probably would try to shut the site down. It's much easier for them to shut down SSE than IGE, and I dont think we want to lose SSE because the administration refused to take a stance against violating the ToS. I believe this is still a WoW site, not the local pub for select insiders who happen to play WoW.

Turiel
22-02-2007, 09:14 PM
I think SSE will lose alot of face by allowing any such activity continue.


Why, when the users of the site don't mind such activity? It would be a different story if there were actual companies coming on and trying to sell accounts and so on. But it's not, its just individuals - our friends.


Blizzard probably would try to shut the site down.


They can't shut anything down. It is not illegal to sell gold, characters, or anything in the WoW universe. ToS != law. You can break each and every single part of the ToS and never be legally liable because thats all it is - a terms of service. That is, you abide by these terms and we give you a service. Otherwise the service is withdraw. There's no legal aspect to it whatsoever.

Onkelswe
22-02-2007, 09:53 PM
I heard Orde wants to b

Senex
22-02-2007, 10:16 PM
Here's an interesting point:

Since the account name and the password are the product of the user's creative thought process, do they constitute his or her intellectual property?

Exting
22-02-2007, 10:26 PM
well i aplologise for the disruption caused Turiel, seems some people have a problem with almost eveything doesnt involve them.

Meri
22-02-2007, 10:37 PM
Why, when the users of the site don't mind such activity? Well some of us obviously do mind. Where do you draw the line? Can someone sell few thousand gold through SSE? Can people share cheats, exploits and bots?


They can't shut anything down. It is not illegal to sell gold, characters, or anything in the WoW universe. ToS != law. You can break each and every single part of the ToS and never be legally liable because thats all it is - a terms of service. That is, you abide by these terms and we give you a service. Otherwise the service is withdraw. There's no legal aspect to it whatsoever.

First of all, like i wrote above the legality has never been tested in court, so it could go either way. But more importantly, a nonprofit private site like SSE is very easy to shut down, because if they threaten to sue you, you will shut it down cause you cannot afford the legal fees. Can you name a single site that did not bend in front of corporate lawyers except for that swedish filesharing site? I am sure you are aware that Blizzard has forced nonprofit sites to close down in the past just by threatening action.

Finally, when has this site been a tiny forum for friends? Its been advertised several times on the official forums, inviting basically anyone on the realm to join.

Gumdrops
22-02-2007, 10:54 PM
I was curious though, to see how much my T3 rogue was worth, back when this was the top possible gear.

*snickers*

Kinshara
22-02-2007, 11:01 PM
Gah. I'll leave the whole should-we-allow-this-kind-of-post thing alone, but... it is *not* illegal to sell the access details for the account. Blizzard can threaten legal action, but they'll lose if the other party decides to stand up to it. (Whole intimidation factor plus lawyer fees/other legal costs usually cause the opponent to fold... common problem in today's legal systems.)

If you do transfer an account, however, Blizzard are perfectly within their rights to permanently ban it as soon as they find evidence of it. And if you try to take them to court over that after transferring.... *you* will lose.

Senex
22-02-2007, 11:41 PM
If you do transfer an account, however, Blizzard are perfectly within their rights to permanently ban it as soon as they find evidence of it.
Evidence, shmevidence. According to the ToU, Blizzard can permaban any account at any moment without prior notification or any explanation whatsoever, if they feel that the user's actions 'violate the spirit of the game'.

takfiri
23-02-2007, 01:22 AM
Well some of us obviously do mind. Where do you draw the line? Can someone sell few thousand gold through SSE? Can people share cheats, exploits and bots?
Hrm, define 'some'?

I mean, a list of about 10% of users here would do.

Onkelswe
23-02-2007, 03:07 AM
Im gonna start goldselling. Got about 600g atm, any offers?
I accept cash, clothes, cars, hot steaming sex or donuts.

Muh
23-02-2007, 01:43 PM
Would a hug do?

Duckman
24-02-2007, 03:11 PM
Why would blizz sue SSE? It's not like this is a gold/character-selling site. It's a community which happend to have one (2?) people selling the account. I honestly don't think Blizz gives a crap about it. They would probably go for the big gold/character-selling sites if any at all.
and I have a hard time thinking that Blizz would risk losing money in a lawsue if they wern't 110% sure to win.




/Duck

Gwynin
24-02-2007, 08:33 PM
Well Blizz could always threaten SSE alltho no real damage could come from that, Blizz ofcos aims for spineless ppl who would react to such actions :)

soulshift
25-02-2007, 03:57 AM
Why would blizz sue SSE? It's not like this is a gold/character-selling site. It's a community which happend to have one (2?) people selling the account. I honestly don't think Blizz gives a crap about it. They would probably go for the big gold/character-selling sites if any at all.
and I have a hard time thinking that Blizz would risk losing money in a lawsue if they wern't 110% sure to win.




/Duck

And I don't think it would serve as an example or that they'll get any positive reactions from it.
They'd lose more money on a small case than it'd be worth, even if they were 100% sure of it.

Stim
25-02-2007, 04:11 AM
Well Blizz could always threaten SSE alltho no real damage could come from that, Blizz ofcos aims for spineless ppl who would react to such actions
Sounds like "pop berseker rage and pummel time" >_>

Meri
25-02-2007, 04:25 AM
No, it would be not be any gain for Blizzard. But you have to remember, that their legal department doesn't exactly think whats good for business. I've seen websites delivered cease and desist orders for very piddly reasons, just because they can, and know that the sites will not actually risk facing legal action. Not that this site has much to worry so far, other than there being a goldselling site calles SSEGames. :P

Valoran
25-02-2007, 07:18 AM
No, it would be not be any gain for Blizzard. But you have to remember, that their legal department doesn't exactly think whats good for business. I've seen websites delivered cease and desist orders for very piddly reasons, just because they can, and know that the sites will not actually risk facing legal action. Not that this site has much to worry so far, other than there being a goldselling site calles SSEGames. :P
You're missing the point.

Breaking the ToS is not a legal issue. If you break the tos you are denied the service to which the terms are applied to. You cannot have criminal charges brought up against you as there is no law broken.

What happens in game is blizzards domain. The ToS specifically states (this is the part where you go and read it.. go on, you might even learn something) where it does and where it does not apply all be it in a rather round about way.

Blizzard couldn't care less if you had bought account details from someone else. They also couldn't care less if someone who they had previously banned has bought another account or started a new one. What they care about is making an example of people who break their ToS and keeping the game clean and enjoyable for the people who play it. To this end, they have full control on what happens within the game. Outside it, they might aswell be spitting into the wind.

Their legal department is only concerned with people infringing copyright. The ToS and everything related to ingame misdemeanants (which by definition are minor concerns) is handled by a totally different team of people.


Summary: You're wrong.

Meri
25-02-2007, 07:35 AM
No, you're wrong. They can raise charges even without real legal basis just vecause they have a strong team of lawyers. They can send cease and desist orders pretty much randomly even o a ketchup selling site if they wish. Anyone can be taken for vourt for any imagined reason, and the major reason supercorporations stay in power is exactly because they have the power to intimidate/silence/buy out any dissenting factors.

Basically anyone acan be threatened with legal action at any time. In many (perhaps not majority but significant number still) cases the threatened party acn also be charged. It does not really matter how ludicrous the charges are if you cannot pay the legal fees to defend yourself. Sorry, but thats how it works. Law and "justice" is for the rich.

And as I said above, I've seen a company charge a nonprofit site for no particular reason or real legal basis, just to shut them down. And shut them down they did. To this date only that swedish filesharing site has defied corporate lawyers to my knowledge.

Llort
25-02-2007, 09:07 AM
I am so happy that the ToS does not apply here in the netherlands ^_^

Meri
25-02-2007, 09:15 AM
Whether or not Eula or ToS apply to a certain country really has little meaning when it comes to a mmorg, as they can cease to provide you the service for whatever vague reason they decide on a whim. -_-

Danzig
25-02-2007, 10:45 AM
No, you're wrong. They can raise charges even without real legal basis just vecause they have a strong team of lawyers. They can send cease and desist orders pretty much randomly even o a ketchup selling site if they wish. Anyone can be taken for vourt for any imagined reason, and the major reason supercorporations stay in power is exactly because they have the power to intimidate/silence/buy out any dissenting factors.

Basically anyone acan be threatened with legal action at any time. In many (perhaps not majority but significant number still) cases the threatened party acn also be charged. It does not really matter how ludicrous the charges are if you cannot pay the legal fees to defend yourself. Sorry, but thats how it works. Law and "justice" is for the rich.

And as I said above, I've seen a company charge a nonprofit site for no particular reason or real legal basis, just to shut them down. And shut them down they did. To this date only that swedish filesharing site has defied corporate lawyers to my knowledge.


I dont know in wich european country that you can sue people here and there for no reason, but in sweden where I live thats not possible, even if you have 100000 Zillion of cash behind you. If you gonna sue someone you have to state that the people you want to sue has broken some kind of law. For example copyright as in the case with thepiratebay.org, the swedish torrent site.

However, blizzards Toa is NOT a law in any of the european states as far as I know. You agree to thoose terms, yes. But you will NOT brake the law if you brake the rules of the Toa. Therefor Blizzard can NOT sue you for doing so. They can NOT sue SSE or threath SSE to close down either, due to that SSE have NOT broken any law or even close to it.

If they would sue persons or SSE they might even beeing in risk to get sueed themselfs for different kind of unleagal acts.

So why do not blizzard try to stop this goldselling and so on? Simply becasue they can't. They have no leagal right to do so. I promise, they would if the had had the right to do so. Or maybe even the goldselling/characterselling give even more money to blizzard due to new accounts to make farmers and get players who wont bother leveling come into the game. I don't know really and I don't care.

Valoran
25-02-2007, 01:42 PM
Meri, you're an idiot.

Exting
25-02-2007, 02:51 PM
Meri, you're an idiot.

QFT

Talsin
25-02-2007, 03:36 PM
actually Llort the ToS does apply here in the netherlands cause you are agreeing to it everytime when you click accept, and yes you cant be sued as easy as in some other countries, you are still in a binding agreement (it actually defaults to a verbal contract by dutch law) with them.
making that blizz can indeed deny you service. and only can take legal actions if you woud actually do something against their protected code 'like haxx& cheats"
our very loved "stichting Brein' and other others like them 'BSA en BIG' are pushing the law with lil suits here and there trying to define what is legal and not. to put accountability back to the end user. (may they all burn in hell)
so please brush up the law a bit :P, cause allthough we have some protections from things like this, we have enough loopholes to be hurt by it, as some very unfortunate uploaders atm are suffering from.

Meri
25-02-2007, 04:38 PM
Meri, you're an idiot.

Your valuable contribution to the discussion has been noted. To be honest, it will take me a long while to construct a reply to such insightful and meaningful post.

Hongten
25-02-2007, 04:41 PM
Meri, you're an idiot.

QFT

QFT

(This deserves piramid)

Valoran
25-02-2007, 06:25 PM
Your valuable contribution to the discussion has been noted. To be honest, it will take me a long while to construct a reply to such insightful and meaningful post.
I made a post. You responded with total rubbish that showed your total lack of understanding of the situation. I called you an idiot.

Accurate summary to me.

There is nothing illegal about breaking the ToS. You cannot be sued or have legal action taken against you unless you have broken a law. ToS != Law.

Is that simple enough for you, or do I need to use finger paints to explain the situation.

Turiel
26-02-2007, 12:16 AM
I made a post. You responded with total rubbish that showed your total lack of understanding of the situation. I called you an idiot.

Accurate summary to me.

There is nothing illegal about breaking the ToS. You cannot be sued or have legal action taken against you unless you have broken a law. ToS != Law.

Is that simple enough for you, or do I need to use finger paints to explain the situation.

Well actually she does have a point. Companies in America, for example, reguarly sue people without any legal basis other than one they make up. They know they cant prove it, but do it anyway because they know the defendant won't be able to pay legal costs and so will just give in. It happens in Europe too to a smaller extent, although I don't know about where you live in particular.

And 'Click to Accept' agreements are still debatable as being legally binding in some countries, mine included. They contest that clicking a computer agreement doesn't constitute a written or verbal contract. But again, it doesn't matter if its legally binding, it's Blizzards world.

Meri
26-02-2007, 01:54 PM
Thank you Turiel for explaining my point. :)

Orde
26-02-2007, 02:27 PM
Well actually she does have a point. Companies in America, for example, reguarly sue people without any legal basis other than one they make up. They know they cant prove it, but do it anyway because they know the defendant won't be able to pay legal costs and so will just give in. It happens in Europe too to a smaller extent, although I don't know about where you live in particular.

And 'Click to Accept' agreements are still debatable as being legally binding in some countries, mine included. They contest that clicking a computer agreement doesn't constitute a written or verbal contract. But again, it doesn't matter if its legally binding, it's Blizzards world.

QFT :P

- Orde

Valoran
26-02-2007, 02:33 PM
Well actually she does have a point. Companies in America, for example, reguarly sue people without any legal basis other than one they make up. They know they cant prove it, but do it anyway because they know the defendant won't be able to pay legal costs and so will just give in. It happens in Europe too to a smaller extent, although I don't know about where you live in particular.
By doing this you would be effectively breaking the law. This is not something done by respected companies. The whole point of this thread is that meri doesn't like the idea of people using SSE to advertise selling a WoW account. In her QQ she brought up that SSE would be sued and the the whole community deprived of what are the most commonly used forums for the entire community. Maybe my "Meri, you're an idiot" post should've been reworded to mention that Meri's post contained a Cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Which is to say she made an incorrect connection in what was the main point behind her argument on this, or atleast, the main point that wasn't opinion based.

And 'Click to Accept' agreements are still debatable as being legally binding in some countries, mine included. They contest that clicking a computer agreement doesn't constitute a written or verbal contract. But again, it doesn't matter if its legally binding, it's Blizzards world.
Beside the point, Blizzard can deny you service because they own everything to do with the game. Servers, game code, artwork, even your character. All you buy with your subscription fee is the ability to put your own time in the game. It doesn't have to be legally binding in any way shape or form.

Meri, if you strongly believe that you are correct and have any basis behind not allowing people to advertise selling their accounts on this forum *other* than a personal dislike of it. I advise you to construct an arguement which does not contain logical fallacies.

Gumdrops
26-02-2007, 03:19 PM
She*

Chopper
27-02-2007, 10:29 AM
Your an idiot.

You're.

Or did I miss some intentional self-parody?

Coldpwa
27-02-2007, 07:33 PM
No, you're wrong. They can raise charges even without real legal basis just vecause they have a strong team of lawyers. They can send cease and desist orders pretty much randomly even o a ketchup selling site if they wish. Anyone can be taken for vourt for any imagined reason, and the major reason supercorporations stay in power is exactly because they have the power to intimidate/silence/buy out any dissenting factors.

Basically anyone acan be threatened with legal action at any time. In many (perhaps not majority but significant number still) cases the threatened party acn also be charged. It does not really matter how ludicrous the charges are if you cannot pay the legal fees to defend yourself. Sorry, but thats how it works. Law and "justice" is for the rich.

And as I said above, I've seen a company charge a nonprofit site for no particular reason or real legal basis, just to shut them down. And shut them down they did. To this date only that swedish filesharing site has defied corporate lawyers to my knowledge.

Simply put, what should happen is not always what does happen. Hope that's clear enough for you, Valoran.

As a sidenote, I don't support this being overdramatised, but could we for once refrain from calling everyone names and perhaps lose some of that attitude that's been apparent in every single one of your posts, Valoran?

Orde
27-02-2007, 07:58 PM
Simply put, what should happen is not always what does happen. Hope that's clear enough for you, Valoran.

As a sidenote, I don't support this being overdramatised, but could we for once refrain from calling everyone names and perhaps lose some of that attitude that's been apparent in every single one of your posts, Valoran?

Whats a pwa? or did you just misspell Coldpaw?.. anywho i agree! except with the no drama part.

- Orde

Coldpwa
27-02-2007, 08:08 PM
Whats a pwa? or did you just misspell Coldpaw?.. anywho i agree! except with the no drama part.

- Orde

I don't know what it means, but I didn't misspell it either!

Orde
27-02-2007, 08:18 PM
I don't know what it means, but I didn't misspell it either!

M'kay.

Duckman
27-02-2007, 08:42 PM
"pwa" sounds to me like the ol' Batman comicbooks-sound-effects. BAAM!, PWA!!, SHLABAM! :)
Or maybe the sound when ninjas are fighting!




/Ducky

Orde
27-02-2007, 08:44 PM
LOL oh okay then cheers for the info :P

Valoran
28-02-2007, 10:05 AM
Simply put, what should happen is not always what does happen. Hope that's clear enough for you, Valoran.

As a sidenote, I don't support this being overdramatised, but could we for once refrain from calling everyone names and perhaps lose some of that attitude that's been apparent in every single one of your posts, Valoran?
Simply put, by that logic you could be sued for walking down the street.

Case in point, SSE is nothing of concern to blizzard. It's not going to be taken down, the connection Meri made was tenuous at best and does indeed contain a logical fallacy. If you want to argue that you can throw money at a court case to force a hand in a situation then fine, the point intially in question is still void.

If you wish to make comments on attitude, clean your own house before assessing mine.

Orde
28-02-2007, 10:18 AM
Simply put, by that logic you could be sued for walking down the street.

Case in point, SSE is nothing of concern to blizzard. It's not going to be taken down, the connection Meri made was tenuous at best and does indeed contain a logical fallacy. If you want to argue that you can throw money at a court case to force a hand in a situation then fine, the point intially in question is still void.

If you wish to make comments on attitude, clean your own house before assessing mine.

Seriously... what?

Über
28-02-2007, 10:45 AM
Orde didn't get it. :<

Coldpwa
28-02-2007, 12:21 PM
If you wish to make comments on attitude, clean your own house before assessing mine.

Let's both do that then :rolleyes:

Utena
15-03-2007, 10:02 PM
assessing... huh... ass

Exting
15-03-2007, 10:06 PM
Yawn, is this thread still hanging on , i suggest its time to lock :)

neura
04-03-2008, 02:56 PM
Just to say:
1. I very much doubt Blizz would sue someone over an account sale. Why bother? What have they lost? They may very well try and prevent eBay sales, to stop someone from being ripped off, but that's about it.
2. If the account gets "reported" to the Blizzard staff they'll watch it most likely.
3. If they find it's changed hands, then they'll close the account.
4. Yes, it's quite clearly stated now in the ToS that the *game* is separate from the *account*. The game - which is the discs and keycode - can be sold. The account has an owner and may have a game (keycode) associated with it.
Therefore I can buy someone else's key, but I don't get their chars etc as they're part of the account.

There was that case of someone who had a fully epicced char that had their account banned the first time the new "owner" logged in.
I'm sure Blizz reserves the right to stop providing the service at a whim.
Most software comes with a limited liability - you can only sue for what you paid for it. So if Windows screws your harddrive over, then the value of the data is your own fault :P. I remember hearing of a case where that happened - MS only paid out the value of the OS.

Exting
04-03-2008, 03:03 PM
Why did you wait 1 year until you posted?