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zanzanexpo
24-01-2007, 09:55 PM
what do you have in mind?im thinking about going 31/20
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/warrior/talents.html?0500502035251002000100005050135005010 05000000000000000000000000000

imp.ms and endless rage are overrated..gogo flurry

Jarelan
25-01-2007, 11:23 AM
only 31/20? you'll have 10 more points to spend :)

zanzanexpo
25-01-2007, 11:38 AM
31/30 :]

Chopper
25-01-2007, 11:47 AM
31/30 was appealing when TM was still in Arms but having tried 0/3 TM, I didn't like it. So I'm working towards a 33/25/3 (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/warrior/talents.html?0500502134201052000120005050131005212 00000000300000000000000000000) spec.


Rage Normalisation is noticeable, but I don't find myself starved, so I've passed on Endless Rage. And with no Endless Rage, I've no real reason to go for Improved Mortal Strike.

Second Wind and Blood Craze really shine with higher stamina.

Death Wish for obvious reasons.


I'm level 66 at the moment, so I will be adding:

Improved Intercept because the difference between 20s and 30s often feels a lot longer.

Improved Slam will be experimental, but I've enjoyed using it as a rage dump against static NPC targets or as a charge/intercept-stun follow-up in PvP, so the shorter cooldown should make it more usable. If Improved Slam turns out to be disappointing, I'll put the points into Blood Frenzy to boost own/ally damage output.

Kzuhl
26-01-2007, 07:31 AM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=phZVVuVgxRiuiof

My levelling spec. I wasn't sure where to put the last points because I didn't really need them *shrug* so I got imp. HS and Cleave.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TVZVZfEtoIzzcest

Prot spec I'd go for. I'm not sure where to put the very last point either, so I put it into imp. Taunt.

thurlog
26-01-2007, 09:32 AM
0/47/14

Tsarina
26-01-2007, 05:15 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=phZVVuVgxRiuiof

My levelling spec. I wasn't sure where to put the last points because I didn't really need them *shrug* so I got imp. HS and Cleave.

Same as mine, except I had the ponts from imp. HS and imp. Bloodrage in parry. I never used HS while leveling. Having a priest around most of the time lets me gather up multiple mobs for mad warrior AoE.

I have 7/36/18 atm, but plan to spec back to full fury again as the other guild warriors level up.

Orde
26-01-2007, 05:25 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=whxf0xZZE0eshhRo0o /lick

Maur
26-01-2007, 08:07 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=whxf0xZZE0eshhRo0o /lick

nice warrior build :)

Maur
26-01-2007, 08:08 PM
what about something about furry/prot (not to much there tanking/offtanking) any sugestion?

Stim
27-01-2007, 05:40 AM
What's better 3 talents in Imp. Hamstring or 5 talents in Imp. BS?

thurlog
27-01-2007, 08:21 AM
0/47/14

link (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/warrior/talents.html?0000000000000000000000005050135505010 25310510050510030000000000000) would be handy perhaps oO

Stim
27-01-2007, 09:00 AM
Uhh okay, so:
This http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/warrior/talents.html?0502032135251002302125105050102000000 00000000300000000000000000000
or this http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/warrior/talents.html?0502032135251002002125105050105000000 00000000300000000000000000000
???

Maiku
27-01-2007, 02:18 PM
my fury spec

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?3202301130200000000000035050105025010 25010510300000000000000000000

Maiku
27-01-2007, 02:18 PM
my fury spec

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?3202301130200000000000035050105025010 25010510300000000000000000000

Lednar
28-01-2007, 02:37 PM
After a while thinking...this is what I'm going on Cornelia http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LVMxdhboxcZVVzmxxoVz

xexa
31-01-2007, 04:41 AM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TV0xkhbZVV0VxxoVuVoc

Stim
28-02-2007, 05:15 PM
Mai neu bilt (misspel ftw!) makes mages have sadface on dd meter and i r pop enrage now ^^: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?0502032134251002000100005050105015012 02000000300000000000000000000
Had fun with it for 2 days and can state >>> Pure Arms is completely inferior to this one, lacking rage gained (in spite of Endless Rage talent) and dps, aswell as pure Fury lacks burst crit damage of Mortal Strike required to deal with those sprinting fire mages in bgs.

Lednar
28-02-2007, 05:22 PM
Ended up with http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xbhbZVVzuxxoVkioc

Mojo
01-03-2007, 12:25 PM
I'm specced http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=pVZVxzZzEtoIMz0est atm.
Having Piercing Howl while still being more or less full prot is just <3

I wonder how other prot warriors intend to spec now that Thunder Clap will be useable in defensive stance, will you find it worth to get the improved version?

Flawless
01-03-2007, 02:48 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TV0cZVxZ0EtoG0dceot

Next patch more or less, maybe dump 1 point from 1h spec to PH

Chopper
01-03-2007, 03:03 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TV0fdNbog0zbZVZcipsh0z

That's me for now.

The 2 in Iron Will are filler, and would probably be better placed in Improved Charge. I don't recall too many "zomg I totally resisted that stun/charm" moments.

I was surprised that neither of the two full protection builds posted above included Improved Revenge. I've found it useful in Heroics where there are a lot of mobs that hit like a truck but are vulnerable to stuns.

Gwynin
01-03-2007, 04:56 PM
Must admit improved revenge isnt included in my prot spec, must be cos Im still thinking about good ol' day raiding..

Astroth
05-03-2007, 08:27 AM
EDIT: Build further down.

Don't know yet if I'll put the 5 points from Vitailty into Iron Will, but when I get the 490+ in def from just gear itself, the 5 points in Anticipation is not really needed so I can have both. :-P

Flawless
05-03-2007, 03:33 PM
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/warrior/talents.html?3500030000000000000000000000000000000 00000000355511033322103031351

Don't know yet if I'll put the 5 points from Vitailty into Iron Will, but when I get the 490+ in def from just gear itself, the 5 points in Anticipation is not really needed so I can have both. :-P

its another 0.8% dodge, parry and miss, thats a whole lot of mitigation, they're worth it.

Not to mention Iron will isn't worth it imo, seeing it does nothing against fear, but then again berserker rage

Astroth
06-03-2007, 08:04 AM
its another 0.8% dodge, parry and miss, thats a whole lot of mitigation, they're worth it.

I see. Didn't know that, thank you. :-) I heard something about def only helping against crushing/criticial blows. I guess I should have checked it out more. ;-)
EDIT: Seems 0.8% to block aswell. http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Defense

new build:
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/warrior/talents.html?3500030000000000000000000000000000000 00000000355511333322123031301

Valoran
06-03-2007, 06:21 PM
Intended level 70 spec for my tonk. 8/11/42. (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TV0cZxxzZcEtouMzccRt)

Orde
06-03-2007, 07:29 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=phGedhio00diZEV0V00o

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LhbcZxxzZ0EtoIMzcxkt

Valoran
06-03-2007, 07:46 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=phGedhio00diZEV0V00o

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LhbcZxxzZ0EtoIMzcxkt
Imp Rend? In a Tanking build? Any specific reasoning? >_>

Orde
06-03-2007, 08:33 PM
Imp Rend? In a Tanking build? Any specific reasoning? >_>

Yes.

Valoran
06-03-2007, 09:47 PM
Good enough for me.

Flawless
07-03-2007, 02:08 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=phGedhio00diZEV0V00o

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LhbcZxxzZ0EtoIMzcxkt

crap builds, what are you aiming with PvP or PvE with the Arms spec? Its a muddle of a build.

As for your tnaking build, No parry imp rend? Imp sunder armor with Devstate? 1 point in focused rage?

Chopper
08-03-2007, 09:29 AM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=phGedhio00diZEV0V00o

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LhbcZxxzZ0EtoIMzcxkt

...and this is what could happen to your warrior if you respec on crack.

Let this be a warning.

Stay away from drugs, kids.

Über
08-03-2007, 09:44 AM
Well, it's a known fact that Orde's way to create builds is just to randomly click the icons until he runs out of talent points. :P

Astroth
08-03-2007, 09:47 AM
Imp sunder armor with Devstate?

Even with Devastate, wouldn't Imp Sunder be nice to have?
You still have to get the Sunders stacked up quickly, and it would be even nicer to have on multiple-mob groups. Or is it overkill? :-)

Delahedril
09-03-2007, 06:30 PM
I have a Fury / Prot build just now. Been fine for soloing and tanking, though not done any of the really hard stuff yet.

http://armory.wow-europe.com/#character-talents.xml?r=Shadowsong&n=Delahedril

Dinmomz
10-03-2007, 01:31 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TV0xZVZ0EtsIMd0xst

prot spec mostly aimed at the 5 mans

Khronos
10-03-2007, 07:43 PM
This is what I'm using atm:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TZqV0VxxoiuVocxt0h

But I want to try a full out dps, something like this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=pVMcdhbZqV0VxxoquVo

Chou
14-05-2008, 07:18 AM
I cant find any forum where i can be told what slam spec is better for me.

so then, im using 21/40 atm, but should i go for 33/28 or even 31/30 with my gear. I realise i should ask myself such question after 200 days played but i've red somewhere that a spec can be better than another one when you reach some specific AP number


Where you should clic to see my gear (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shadowsong&n=Chou)

this is my pve set - and im in berz stance

-Chou-

Evilstein
14-05-2008, 12:54 PM
http://www.honorbound.se/Slamdps.pdf

Tsarina
14-05-2008, 01:57 PM
But I want to try a full out dps, something like this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=pVMcdhbZqV0VxxoquVo
Skipping Wapon Mastery is a very bad idea. Specially when it's for worthless talents like Booming Voice and Improved Berserker Rage. You're also missing Improved Heroic Strike and 1/2 Improved Whirl Wind. All you want from the arms tree is imp. HS, Anger Management and Impale. That takes 17 points, not 18. You're missing out on DPS talents.

Kabhanda
14-05-2008, 02:48 PM
After checking with one of shadowsong's finest I have been assured that this is a pro spec for fury dps.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LI0ezhboZVV0VxxRVzq

Crash
14-05-2008, 03:49 PM
As far as I know, at level 70, most people who use "slam builds" do so in order to have Blood Frenzy for group/raid DPS while still being able to do decent 2H DPS, so perhaps they should really be called Blood Frenzy builds. The question is, why do you want to use Slam? Is it so that you can have Blood Frenzy, or just for solo DPS?

Sloth
14-05-2008, 05:03 PM
Skipping Wapon Mastery is a very bad idea. Specially when it's for worthless talents like Booming Voice and Improved Berserker Rage. You're also missing Improved Heroic Strike and 1/2 Improved Whirl Wind. All you want from the arms tree is imp. HS, Anger Management and Impale. That takes 17 points, not 18. You're missing out on DPS talents.

in all fairness he did post that about half a year ago, which is before the changes in the warrior talent spec (I think) :P

Tsarina
14-05-2008, 07:06 PM
After checking with one of shadowsong's finest I have been assured that this is a pro spec for fury dps.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LI0ezhboZVV0VxxRVzq
This spec puzzles me and at the same time reminds me of Islam. Some place in the Quran it says something like "All muslims cannot be wrong". A very clever way of opening for councils representing "all muslims" and keeping religion up to date. It's a crap religion, don't get me wrong, but that one bit makes sense. And it even works in WoW.
"All warriors cannot be wrong".

So if you're stuck with an obscure build no other warriors use, you're wrong. Not everyone else.

in all fairness he did post that about half a year ago, which is before the changes in the warrior talent spec (I think) :P
I didn't check (good enough, apparently) where the new posts started. What I said about his talents is still true, though. Except WM the rest of the tree looks the same (for that spec).

Skan
15-05-2008, 03:36 AM
Admittedly it's a nice quote (of sorts) concerning Islam, but Anatole France said, "If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it's still a foolish thing ". Seems somewhat applicable here as a counter I believe.

Tsarina
15-05-2008, 11:29 AM
Admittedly it's a nice quote (of sorts) concerning Islam, but Anatole France said, "If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it's still a foolish thing ". Seems somewhat applicable here as a counter I believe.
That's a great counter if you know nothing about the actual issue, but have some lines from your "quote of the day" mailing list.

50 million is by no stretch all people. Or even all muslims. So I don't really find it as applicable as you apparently do. You could improve your random quote by saying "The majority is always wrong", if you're still into the using quotes as counter thing.

So to keep the argument to quotes; "all muslims" aren't just people. These are good people, as you'd assume muslims think they are. 50 million people say foolish things for sure. Not 50 million good people. So back to my original "translation": All good warriors cannot be wrong.

And whether you manage to find some random, but applicable, counter quote or not, it's still a bad spec. And here's why:



Swing (Physical) 662
Heroic Strike (Physical) 1141
Bloodthirst (Physical) 1849
Execute (Physical) 1682
Whirlwind (Physical) 831


These are my average hits during Brutallus. Here's from a warrior with 21/40 spec. A better geared one, I might add. So the differences are not in gear.


Swing (Physical) 555
Heroic Strike (Physical) 1041
Bloodthirst (Physical) 1539
Execute (Physical) 1343
Whirlwind (Physical) 716


As you and Frances can see, the 20% boost every 3 minutes doesn't make up for the lost fury talents.

All warriors with a clue cannot be wrong.

Taurusos
15-05-2008, 11:37 AM
Oh.
Dear.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Shadowsong&n=Chonar

>.<

Wow.

/Tau

Taurusos
15-05-2008, 11:39 AM
Slicer my man, slap us some WWS of your very own CoI warrior.

This will be intresting.

/Tau

Thordyn
15-05-2008, 12:11 PM
Chonar has been told that his spec is his problem plenty of times.
He's just stubborn.


Also Tsarina, I don't think Skan was actually defending the gimped spec, he just enjoys quoting people.

Skan
15-05-2008, 03:54 PM
Yea Jamie (Thordyn) is right there, just pointing out your analogy is a bit shit. If it takes me to put " If all'good' people bla bla bla bla..." for you to find the analogy applicable... then fine. And it's a rather large assumption to say all Muslims are good...
I've no issue with your math, I think you're totally right, but adding somewhat vacuous analogies to the beginning of a post detract from your very valid point.

Valoran
15-05-2008, 04:55 PM
Slicer my man, slap us some WWS of your very own CoI warrior.

This will be intresting.

/Tau
http://wowwebstats.com/jx4auyr1si5io?s=10229-10591

Ante was DC'd for 40% of that kill.

Chonar
15-05-2008, 06:04 PM
My name is Chonar and I am a muslim.

Wait wat.

Slicer
15-05-2008, 06:13 PM
http://wowwebstats.com/jx4auyr1si5io?s=10229-10591

Ante was DC'd for 40% of that kill.

Eugh, I do not look good in that kill.

Buffs and gains: Slice and dice - 5 times... talk about slacking.

Chonar
15-05-2008, 06:23 PM
Keep on pressing F5 people, there may be some dramas in here yet.
DEMAND AN EXPLANATION FOR THIS BULLSHIT. D:

Tsarina
15-05-2008, 06:43 PM
Yea Jamie (Thordyn) is right there, just pointing out your analogy is a bit shit. If it takes me to put " If all'good' people bla bla bla bla..." for you to find the analogy applicable... then fine. Not to find it applicable, to find it infallible. And of course it isn't. But take it for what it is. If you can.

Skan
15-05-2008, 07:00 PM
I get what you're trying to say, and it's a fair point, but ultimately it is a generalisation *stops himself from quoting Twain* :P. Oh other news, how's M'uru?

Chou
16-05-2008, 11:11 AM
Thanks for the only answer about my question i recieved :)

why i want to slam ? cause i find it more entertaining to work and fight with my GCD and positioning than going dual wield, even if both are really fun. type of fun varies from one people to another :)

Holo
16-05-2008, 02:26 PM
Thanks for the only answer about my question i recieved :)

why i want to slam ? cause i find it more entertaining to work and fight with my GCD and positioning than going dual wield, even if both are really fun. type of fun varies from one people to another :)

33/28, Cataclysm's Edge

Crash
16-05-2008, 02:45 PM
If I wanted a build to give maximum personal DPS with Slam then I might try something like this, which is actually a hyperlink even though it looks just like regular text (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LA0czIbZE00VMgRVdVo). Keeping Rampage up while slamming properly would drive me insane, though.

If you're looking for theorycrafted numbers on which is the best build for personal DPS with 2H Slam, then you're unlikely to find any, as it's generally assumed that you'll dual wield with a full fury build for personal DPS, or go for a standard 33/28 Blood Frenzy build for the group DPS buff.

Chou
16-05-2008, 05:07 PM
Ty for those comments master horde guys :)

Holo
16-05-2008, 05:11 PM
If I wanted a build to give maximum personal DPS with Slam then I might try something like this, which is actually a hyperlink even though it looks just like regular text (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LA0czIbZE00VMgRVdVo). Keeping Rampage up while slamming properly would drive me insane, though.

That's impossible, Crash, becouse slam rotationing warrior is:
1. On GCD 75% of time
2. Doesnt hit often enough to get crit trigger when it's needed

Skan
17-05-2008, 05:25 AM
That's a great counter if you know nothing about the actual issue, but have some lines from your "quote of the day" mailing list.

50 million is by no stretch all people. Or even all muslims. So I don't really find it as applicable as you apparently do. You could improve your random quote by saying "The majority is always wrong", if you're still into the using quotes as counter thing.

So to keep the argument to quotes; "all muslims" aren't just people. These are good people, as you'd assume muslims think they are. 50 million people say foolish things for sure. Not 50 million good people. So back to my original "translation": All good warriors cannot be wrong.

And whether you manage to find some random, but applicable, counter quote or not, it's still a bad spec. And here's why:



Swing (Physical) 662
Heroic Strike (Physical) 1141
Bloodthirst (Physical) 1849
Execute (Physical) 1682
Whirlwind (Physical) 831


These are my average hits during Brutallus. Here's from a warrior with 21/40 spec. A better geared one, I might add. So the differences are not in gear.


Swing (Physical) 555
Heroic Strike (Physical) 1041
Bloodthirst (Physical) 1539
Execute (Physical) 1343
Whirlwind (Physical) 716


As you and Frances can see, the 20% boost every 3 minutes doesn't make up for the lost fury talents.

All warriors with a clue cannot be wrong.

But your spec doesn't give Blood frenzy right? I'd assume that's why he's taken that spec..

Vegelus
17-05-2008, 07:56 AM
That could be true. But he's 21/40/0, and Blood Frenzy is 35+ pts talent.

Tsarina
17-05-2008, 12:07 PM
But your spec doesn't give Blood frenzy right? I'd assume that's why he's taken that spec..Stick to the quotes :p

Skan
17-05-2008, 12:51 PM
haha...may have been shitfaced saying that but yes, I think I might. Where is my "quote of the day" when I need it!

Skan
17-05-2008, 12:51 PM
That could be true. But he's 21/40/0, and Blood Frenzy is 35+ pts talent.

Then it could never be true, DUH!! :P

Chonar
17-05-2008, 01:36 PM
But your spec doesn't give Blood frenzy right? I'd assume that's why he's taken that spec..

Blood Frenzy? Me? Oh, nono, I just like deathwish. Gives me an adrenalin kick.

Skan
17-05-2008, 01:53 PM
See, I knew there'd be a valid reason for it.

Kabhanda
17-05-2008, 02:15 PM
'liking' something is not a valid reason to use a shit spec.

Skan
17-05-2008, 02:19 PM
maybe I should have put a picture of a big heap of sarcasm underneath it too :P. So....I here you're a filthy gay from what Jamie says.. fancy a bum?

Kabhanda
17-05-2008, 03:09 PM
With you?

Hell no, ugly bastard.

Ajial
17-05-2008, 03:26 PM
'liking' something is not a valid reason to use a shit spec.

So by this logic, I shouldn't wear items just because they are epic but get items with good stats? Epics or stats... epics or stats...... Sorry, that doesnt fit logic :(

Skan
17-05-2008, 05:47 PM
With you?

Hell no, ugly bastard.

Racist! Gnomes are people too!

Chonar
18-05-2008, 10:22 AM
'liking' something is not a valid reason to use a shit spec.

As long as I can still put out good DPS (which I can) and we're not having 1/2% wipes, I see no reason not to use the spec that I enjoy the most.

You know, the whole issue of 'a game is supposed to be fun' comes looking around the corner here again. Maybe when we reach M'uru phase 2 will I go back to maximum efficiency, but for now I'll enjoy the feeling of an adrenalin rush in my gut whenever a boss reaches 20% or Thrane hits heroism.

Absolutely nothing you can say will change my mind, since I have no desire, no need, to be the top DPS'er. I've lost that epeening attitude long ago (you wont ever hear me whine when it's Solarian's Sapphire time). I'm still reaching the top5 on enough occasions to pull my weight, we dont ever wipe due to lack of DPS, so I neednt feel ashamed. I dont get joy out of seeing my name high on a WWS, I get my joy from taking extra risk (+5% extra damage taken for half a minute) and seeing my damage (and threat!) soar up.

Does it bother you, Khlysti? Does it bother you knowing that there're people out there doing the maximum difficulty PVE content without a cookie cutter spec, just because this is the way they ensure to get the most fun out of the game? Why do you think I always was the positive one, Khly? Why do you think after all these years, I was never one to get burned out?

I wonder if you still feel that tingle in your stomach whenever a boss dies for the first time.
Sometimes I listen to you and wonder if you ever had that in the first place.

Kabhanda
18-05-2008, 10:56 AM
If you ever read any of my comments in the past on casuals and months behind raid groups you would know I don't have anything against people for killing things late, that said you have never, and by the sounds of your attitude will never face the maximum difficulty content.

The true difficulty of pve content lies in working out what to do, not in doing what you are told to do. I'm sure you have heard me say how T6 was a total joke many many times, as much as the first three in sunwell are a step up from that, they really aren't that hard. Brutallus is being killed in under five minutes by some guilds, rather clear then that a suboptimal set up would still be able to complete it then. Lets now take Twins as an example, this fight was quite hard to kill with no knowledge of it, most guilds who killed it never managed to completely trivialise the shadow images in the way that the more recent shadow first strats do, and most of the 'top' guilds who have since tried a shadow first approach rate the difficulty of Twins as below that of Kalecgos. Now clearly this is a little harsh, as learning the fight and repeating it will clearly mean we know what to do better by the time we even tried the shadow first, and yet it really is so much easier. My point here? Its rather daft to make comments on maximum difficulty pve content when to the best of my knowledge you still haven't managed to defeat twins.

What people do in guilds I am not part of is entirely up to them, but the general attitude you have is a big part of why I left in the first place. A complete lack of desire to do well, no ambition, no drive to be the best. That I cannot understand. You aren't stupid, you know full well that you could change things and do better and yet you actively choose to be mediocre.

There are still people in CoI who really do do everything they can to maximise their threat/survivablity/dps/hps/efficiency etc, does it not in some way bother you that by choosing to not do as well as you could you are in some way pissing on the effort they put in?

Since this is clearly not 'lol i thought this spec was gud' and you really did choose it knowing it was worse, but that you find it 'more fun', I am genuinely curious as to the mind set behind it. Please don't take this is flame bait, I really cannot grasp why someone would bu choice do worse than they can, so please enlighten me.

Chonar
18-05-2008, 11:40 AM
I just told you. I get an adrenalin kick out of it. Like a rollercoaster ride. Thats really all there is to it.

And to make up for it, I simply became better than I was before. I cleaned up my rotation, min/maxed gear choices, and so forth, and so forth.

Twins is a survival fight. M'uru's Entropius phase, from what I hear, will be a DPS fight. Will I respec by the time we reach M'uru? Most likely, yes.

I know this'll sound like making excuses, but believe me if I say that when we reached twins, there were only a handful of kills, no strats. A strat was thought up, adjusted, adjusted again. We're getting there now, the only reason we havent killed them yet is because, due to attendance reasons, we didnt have practice on them for three fucking weeks. Frustrating. Hell, last week we didnt even kill Felmyst due to people having to cancel.

I have ambition, but it's not personal ambition. It's ambition for the guild, and I do plenty for my guildmates. I cannot remember ever putting my own needs (note: *needs*) before that of the guild. I guess that's why I am allowed a bit of leverage when it comes to balancing efficiency and fun:

There are still people in CoI who really do do everything they can to maximise their threat/survivablity/dps/hps/efficiency etc, does it not in some way bother you that by choosing to not do as well as you could you are in some way pissing on the effort they put in?

If everyone had my mindset, then I wouldnt have the luxuary of choosing a more enjoyable spec over the maximum efficient spec, this is true. But hey, the fact remains that we're not wiping due to lack of DPS. If we were we wouldnt be having this conversation. If we were, I'd be respeccing right now. You understand that.

Also you were there with me in Naxxramas, Khly. I can say anything I want about maximum PVE content. Lol legacy pride.

You left CoI for greener fields, Khly, abandoning people who considered you a friend and comrade. Personal ambition can be a terrible thing.

Kabhanda
18-05-2008, 12:14 PM
You left CoI for greener fields, Khly, abandoning people who considered you a friend and comrade. Personal ambition can be a terrible thing.

I suppose I can see some of your points, I don't quite follow the logic of 'If everyone had my mindset, then I wouldnt have the luxuary of choosing a more enjoyable spec over the maximum efficient spec' though, but anyway on to the quote shown above.

I didn't abandon anyone I considered a friend, maybe I run on a different definition here as I am not trying to claim I disliked most of you guys. But the group of people I condsidered as friends in CoI had basically left or gone casual by the time I did. My choice was between 'progress' (which I had tried and failed to institute in CoI, for pretty much the same reasons you seem to be struggling at the moment) and a guild tag which I no longer felt truly part of. Were I a footballer playing for my howntown club, with my friends and I was offered a transfer to a top team, I would take it. By the sounds of it you would stay as you are at the hometown club, as much as I am trying to understand your mindset, please try to understand mine. I just don't feel any loyalty to people who I feel aren't 'trying' as hard as I am, its that simple :P

Skan
18-05-2008, 01:06 PM
From what you've both wrote, this basically just comes down to "What makes you enjoy the game". Neither of you is wrong, you just enjoy differing aspects of the same game. Admittedly you could argue it is unfair in some aspects for Chonar to "ride" (and I use that term sarcastically before anyone rides the burn-train to Bellendsville) other raiders like that, but until it becomes the reason we wipe, I can't see a problem with it at all, or large objections are made to it.

I think the point you miss Kabhanda is that maybe some people in COI considered you a friend still when you left (possibly, I have no idea about...well you, as I wasn't there at the time, this just seems something very apparent as an "observer" of sorts). And just because Chonwerk's spec is not the best it could possibly be, doesn't necessarily mean he puts any less effort into the game, and raiding. He will ( I dearly hope!) still put in 5 hours of concentrated raiding on raid days; probably more if asked, he will always come with all his consumables etc.. So saying just because he uses a spec which isn't the optimal spec, doesn't mean he in anyway slacks while raiding. Yes, if he was the reason I thought we failed at twins, if I noticed he dropped like a fly on some fights; due possibly to his adrenaline rush, then yes, my tune would be a much more bitter one, but as it is, I see no problem with Chonar, except for his terrible taste in music .

And yeah, if I didn't feel part of COI, I'd probably leave pretty sharpish too...if anyone would have me :P

Thordyn
18-05-2008, 01:35 PM
I didn't abandon anyone I considered a friend, maybe I run on a different definition here as I am not trying to claim I disliked most of you guys. But the group of people I condsidered as friends in CoI had basically left or gone casual by the time I did.
:(

Faylin
19-05-2008, 02:39 PM
Wow, actually one of the better discussions in the history of these forums. And oddly enough I think I'll have to agree with Kabh on this one.

'liking' something is not a valid reason to use a shit spec.
If a certain spec is proven to be less effective for your role in a raid (DPS in your case) I really don't see a valid arguement for keeping it. Yes, use it in heroics, alt runs, whatnot.
But DPS -is- an issue. We did have 1 and 2% wipes on Brutallus. I -like Kabhanda- can't understand how it doesn't bother you that you haven't tried anything to optimize your own performance.*
I'm not blaiming you for slacking or anything, you do indeed compensate this odd fetish more than enough, I just don't understand it either.


* time can obviously be a limiting factor for maximizing ones performance. If you'd have to -let's say- farm 500 badges for a 1 dps upgrade, I can see why one would choose not to do this.

Chonar
19-05-2008, 04:35 PM
We did have 1 and 2% wipes on Brutallus.

Happened once whilst I was in raid, and during that try I sucked. (Didnt get into the rythm until after the first 15% and, if I remember correctly, failed to drink my battle elixir at the start of the fight even though I could've sworn I hit the button for it.)

As I said, once it'll be needed again I'll be going back to maximum powerrrrr. And looking at M'uru that'll be soon enough. Personally I didnt think my choice was bothering anyone since the current fight we're learning aint a DPS one. I'm not inhuman and can get into what Kabh's saying about people being bothered that I wouldnt be doing my absolute best (in regards to spec, 'cause you know I do my absolute best on every raid in regards to attendance, consumables, and saving your clothie hides during chaotic trash pulls even though I'm in DPS gear), so if it's really bothering people I'll respec right now instead of after we've killed Mary kate and Ashley. I'm easy like sunday morning.

Holo
20-05-2008, 06:41 AM
Personally i believe that every fight in this game is dps fight. Bigger dps numbers solve:
1. Mana problems (faster fight - less regen needed)
2. Mistakes (faster fight - less time to fuck up)
3. Utility (more dps you have - more time you have to use your utility abilities like tc, demo, sunders etc.)

And Chonar, small hint: M'uru wants top dps in ph1 as well.


/join Low DPS Specs Aren't Fun Club

Chou
20-05-2008, 06:56 AM
Fuck you and your standards. 21/40 is fein.

Über
20-05-2008, 03:16 PM
Personally i believe that every fight in this game is dps fight. Bigger dps numbers solve:
1. Mana problems (faster fight - less regen needed)
2. Mistakes (faster fight - less time to fuck up)
3. Utility (more dps you have - more time you have to use your utility abilities like tc, demo, sunders etc.)

Indeed. Weird offspecs and "funspecs" should really be used when the current content is on farm status.

But if the guild isn't aiming to give it's 100% then I suppose it shouldn't matter much.

Chou
20-05-2008, 03:40 PM
we are of course saying that people have a perfect connection and fucking imba skills to handle the "perfect spec". And are you going to worry about random guys losing 100 dps cause of spec when some people can lose 300 because of their computer or connection ?

Kabhanda
20-05-2008, 04:16 PM
Yes, but thats atleast partly due to the fact that if someone is 300dps below where they should be then I won't be playing with them anyway.

Crash
20-05-2008, 04:22 PM
This thread rocks.

we are of course saying that people have a perfect connection and fucking imba skills to handle the "perfect spec". And are you going to worry about random guys losing 100 dps cause of spec when some people can lose 300 because of their computer or connection ?
Uhm... yes? I'm not quite sure what your point is here. Gaining 100dps by respeccing is obviously worth doing, regardless of whether you're currently at 1000 or 1300dps. Suggesting that a potential DPS gain is irrelevant because your overall DPS is limited by technical issues is wacky. Besides, it's not like you need 30fps and a sub-100ms ping to perform well as a fury warrior.

Skan
20-05-2008, 10:12 PM
Personally i believe that every fight in this game is dps fight. Bigger dps numbers solve:
1. Mana problems (faster fight - less regen needed)
2. Mistakes (faster fight - less time to fuck up)
3. Utility (more dps you have - more time you have to use your utility abilities like tc, demo, sunders etc.)

And Chonar, small hint: M'uru wants top dps in ph1 as well.


/join Low DPS Specs Aren't Fun Club

Must disagree with your initial statement there, on the first stage of twins I am consistently stopping dps because I've got to be below both tanks, my flask means fuck all there. That's not a dps race in and sense of the word is it? If however I was to use fort pots or god forbid a fort flask, that wouldn't be wasted, which would hint at it being a survival fight, not a dps fight as you implied to start with.
However, I do see the point you're making, but I don't think that it's a rule you can apply to every fight; many yes, all no.

I don't get point 3. however, please explain.


And are you going to worry about random guys losing 100 dps cause of spec when some people can lose 300 because of their computer or connection ?

Simply, yes. If I was looking to utterly butt slam the words "maximum dps" then yes, I would certainly want 100 more dps out of someone. The comparison between something like a spec, which is controllable by the player, and an ISP which for the most part, other than sometimes costly changes of provider, is not in said raiders hands, is not a good one. And Kab's right, if someone was constantly under performing like that, then they'd likely be kicked, ISP or not, there's no way on earth that a guild could afford to carry like that.

And no, it's not exactly a "low dps spec" is it? I know it's probably just an off the cuff comment but still.... And finding a spec more interesting to play really isn't the work of the devil guys and girls. I personally loved playing Affliction and probably prefer it to shadowbolt spamming by far; at least I'm doing something that my dipping bird can't do..

Holo
21-05-2008, 05:54 AM
Must disagree with your initial statement there, on the first stage of twins I am consistently stopping dps because I've got to be below both tanks, my flask means fuck all there. That's not a dps race in and sense of the word is it? If however I was to use fort pots or god forbid a fort flask, that wouldn't be wasted, which would hint at it being a survival fight, not a dps fight as you implied to start with.
However, I do see the point you're making, but I don't think that it's a rule you can apply to every fight; many yes, all no.

I don't get point 3. however, please explain.

About Twins. Do you have TA totem? If you do and you're still agrocapped - i think there is something wrong with your tank(s).
Also "perfect" spec at least gives you that option - to use fort flask, while in "fun" spec you can't affort it.
What is it you don't understand in point 3? If your dps is high enough you can waste some of your time/gcds on non-dps abilities. For warriors it's Demoralizing Shout, Thunder Clap, Sunder Armor, Pummel etc. etc.

Chonar
21-05-2008, 11:41 AM
Tell me about it. Being the only warrior in the raid sucks when yer keeping up all debuffs. :\ :/ :\

Skan
21-05-2008, 05:51 PM
What is it you don't understand in point 3? If your dps is high enough you can waste some of your time/gcds on non-dps abilities. For warriors it's Demoralizing Shout, Thunder Clap, Sunder Armor, Pummel etc. etc.

My point was high dps doesn't magically enable you to do these, you're still capable of doing them with shit dps hypothetically. And to my own discredit I've paid absolutely no attention to totems going up, I'll take a note tomorrow.

Holo
22-05-2008, 04:21 AM
My point was high dps doesn't magically enable you to do these, you're still capable of doing them with shit dps hypothetically.

I really don't know how to rephrase it other way...

Taurusos
22-05-2008, 06:53 AM
Holo means...

The more dps you do, the bigger buffert time-wise to be able to; so to speak "afford" to using debuffs such as demo/tc etc etc.

/Tau

Valoran
22-05-2008, 08:07 AM
Which is a silly comment to make.

Stumpet
22-05-2008, 08:22 AM
Blood Frenzy? Me? Oh, nono, I just like deathwish. Gives me an adrenalin kick.

My out of context posts are out of context, but whats not to like with a talent named "DeathWish" :D

Evilstein
22-05-2008, 10:39 AM
I would've preferred "Homocidal Rage" or something else not so associated with your own death, tbh. :D

Slicer
22-05-2008, 10:42 AM
I would've preferred "Homocidal Rage" or something else not so associated with your own death, tbh. :D

Gay rage?

There's a new one.

Chonar
22-05-2008, 10:59 AM
I'll trash you with my pink handbag.

Evilstein
22-05-2008, 12:58 PM
I would've preferred "Homocidal Rage" or something else not so associated with your own death, tbh. :D

D'OH!!!

Stim
22-05-2008, 10:34 PM
This thread goes wrong D:

Chonar
23-05-2008, 08:35 AM
This thread goes http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7817/threadgoesww9.jpg
.

Evilstein
23-05-2008, 10:34 AM
<

Left = Right!