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View Full Version : Pointless. Pathetic. DOTS.


Taurusos
07-12-2006, 09:08 AM
DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. BOLT. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. DOTS. BOLT.

STOP IT PLS!

:(

IT HURTS.

What is a warrior supposed to do against all these dots...

:(

/Dotted

Faylin
07-12-2006, 09:15 AM
DoT's have always been overpowered in PvP, but they're insane now cause:
- new talents were made with higher stamina from TBC in mind. No one has that amount of stamina yet.
- decursing is f00ked because Blizz changed the UI
- scaling of DoTs has gotten an buff.

In other words, I like my shadowpriest....

Kinshara
07-12-2006, 09:24 AM
Putting in the scaling change before people are able to get more stamina seems to be a rather large mistake, imho.

Psonica
07-12-2006, 09:33 AM
- decursing is f00ked because Blizz changed the UI

not to mention that Unstable Affliction made decursing dangerous ... :)

http://www.jinx.com/images/products/700bgBlack.jpg

Karadros
07-12-2006, 11:14 AM
What is a warrior supposed to do against all these dots...

Get killed by the Felguard first.

Thrane
07-12-2006, 03:01 PM
What is a warrior supposed to do against all these dots...


Die.

Chimera
09-12-2006, 08:12 PM
/babycryfaic

Ashborn
09-12-2006, 08:16 PM
/babycryfaic
2 instant cast dots doing 6k+ damage is pretty fucking silly however you put it. And that's just 2 dots out of 5.

Onkelswe
09-12-2006, 10:27 PM
You'r all supposed to die a painfull death!!
Im glad i switched to the dark side.
Onkel be amused!

Lothereon
10-12-2006, 12:05 AM
Not much tbh, best trick so far is pop recklessness and try and take him down before they kill you :(

Note - This works about once every 30 minutes so itsn't a reliable tactic

Abberare
10-12-2006, 12:20 AM
You'r all supposed to die a painfull death!!
Im glad i switched to the dark side.
Onkel be amused!

Hands above the desk!

Teatrixz0r
10-12-2006, 12:40 AM
/babycryfaic
2 instant cast dots doing 6k+ damage is pretty fucking silly however you put it. And that's just 2 dots out of 5.

Please tell me how you get 6k damage out of two instacasts. I want do that as well :(

Taurusos
10-12-2006, 01:52 AM
+spell damage rating or whatever blizztard calls it these days

/Tau

Teatrixz0r
10-12-2006, 02:02 AM
I suppose if you had berserking and pop'ed a trinket you could do it... with over 600 spell damage.

Ashborn
10-12-2006, 02:58 AM
650 spell damage (which I have) + toep + corruption + amp coa.

Psonica
10-12-2006, 10:22 AM
This calls for a test...

...and then there was no Shadowsong online :(

Faylin
10-12-2006, 10:28 AM
As a comparison, my Shadow Word: Pain that should do 852 untalented and without gear does about 2650.

(49 points in shadow and about +450 shadow dmg)

Stim
10-12-2006, 10:48 AM
Dots are evil! When I see a shadow priest or a warlock I cry out: C'MON bring it on, you son of a... <release spirit>
Hope at least rogues can show 'em dotters some melee loving >_>

Faylin
10-12-2006, 12:49 PM
Rogues only win if they manage to stun lock you from start to finish tbh. I guess that will change with Cloak of Shadows though :)

Thrane
10-12-2006, 12:55 PM
650 spell damage (which I have) + toep + corruption + amp coa.

+ warrior berserker stance :P

I wouldn't mind the dots if every single warlock I meet actually faced me like a man after dotting me instead of running away like a little chicken :P I don't mind dying while taking my victim with me ^^

Robinvi
10-12-2006, 01:18 PM
May i add something to this discussion?

Nerf Warlocks.

Kenny
10-12-2006, 01:23 PM
May i add something to this discussion?

Nerf Warlocks.

Nerf Paladins.
They don't look gay enough atm.

Abberare
10-12-2006, 05:07 PM
Rogues only win if they manage to stun lock you from start to finish tbh. I guess that will change with Cloak of Shadows though :)

Yup, locks are easy with it ;)

Malrazor
10-12-2006, 10:46 PM
Tseric wrote:

If you’re going to talk about solo PvP balance, I am simply going to restate what any class developer is going to say. The game isn’t designed for you to have any assurance of winning a solo fight. If you want to duel, that’s fine. If you find yourself alone on a battleground, that happens, too. But there has never been a guarantee for any class of a win in a solo PvP situation.

If you want to call another class overpowered, go right ahead. I might even agree with you. What is not going to help your game is to think you should have counters for every 1v1 PvP situation built into your class, which is what I hear a lot of from many classes.

For example, warriors want crowd control or caster counters. You’re a melee class and it is an intended weak side for the class to be susceptible to crowd control or snares. You do have some abilities that can break certain situations, but it is only for certain situations.

There will never be ‘balance’ for 1v1 just as there will never be ‘balance’ for world PvP. The factors are either minute in one case or too numerous in the other. We deal with the middle ground of dealing with group elements.

I’ll say here what I just said in another thread.

Talents at this time are designed with the idea in mind that the level cap is raised and that people are acquiring new gear.

However, the level cap has not yet been raised, nor are the majority of players seeing new gear.

This is simply going to skew balance in a way that we don’t really like, but we have to accept for the time being.

Yes, the expansion will change matters, especially when a gear dependent class is going to be gaining new gear.

Yes, we absolutely want to measure the effects of rage normalization in the immediate future and continuing after release of the expansion. This would probably be the primary focus for this class with the class designers and the number-crunchers.

Will expansion alleviate all of your problems? I would never say something like that. What it is going to do is drastically affect class balance from what you are seeing now. Drastically.

I’d like to come in here and say, “Hey, look at the bunch of new shiny warrior abilities that will be hotfixed into the game tomorrow!” but that isn’t happening.

The plain, simple fact is that warriors were strong and they got nerfed. They got nerfed probably more than any class in the past few months. They simply had the potential for too much damage. Now, if you don’t see that from your particular perspective, that’s fine. The point is, the excessive damage was possible and too many players were seeing it. Damage is brought down. Rage mechanics are reigned in.

When players begin settling into habits and play styles again with not only the new parts now, but what is soon coming, we reassess class balance again. So the cycle goes.

1v1 will never be balanced in this game. This is because the only way to balance 1v1 is to homogenize every class. To dilute them until they have the same ability with a different name.

That is the inevitable pressure applied to 1v1 class design.

Yeah, we are ignoring it, because it is a fruitless path.

see Taurusos, you shouldn't be able to beat a warlock alone :roll:

Karadros
10-12-2006, 11:07 PM
Yes, but every other class has CC, making Warriors weaker against every class.

Fintan
10-12-2006, 11:12 PM
Tseric is fucking awesome. Whereas things like that have been stepped around in the past, he has the balls to come and explain it like it actually is. I respect that a lot more than a GM trying to appease a class with mis-leading wording and mere hints at improvement.

Karadros
10-12-2006, 11:23 PM
WHEN were warriors ever too strong?! Did they have Titan Grip live for a week that I missed?!

Faylin
10-12-2006, 11:40 PM
Yes, but every other class has CC, making Warriors weaker against every class.

Not trying to say your CC is awesome, but you do have:
- hamstring
- piercing howl (talent)
- initmidating shout

Ashborn
10-12-2006, 11:44 PM
Yes, but every other class has CC, making Warriors weaker against every class.

Not trying to say your CC is awesome, but you do have:
- hamstring
- piercing howl (talent)
- initmidating shout
-intercept

Karadros
11-12-2006, 12:43 AM
If only Intercept removed CC.

We also have Charge but it seems Mages can just blink out of those.

Onkelswe
11-12-2006, 01:25 AM
Dots r teh boring. Make curse of doom work in pvp instead :)
Just hit one off on Golemagg for 7k+ ^^
That would be kewl in the arena, throw some out, throw an insta-fear and run away :D

Stim
11-12-2006, 01:28 AM
So... 1v1 will never be balanced in this game
So, almost any other class >>> [not-so-uber-equipped] warriors...KK Now this where ze balance should step in. What class are warriors 99% ownage to? Eh? A paladin? I sure can beat loladins but good pala always outlast me 1on1 with similar gear! A worrleck? Not until I get my 10000hp. What is the balance of warriors? Continious nerfs? Raid boss tanking? 15 seconds-30 mins cooldown wonder? *sigh Personally I play it coz I like HUGE shiny swords and beating the people I shouldn't normally beat :P
As for the topic, so currents dots out dps most reasonable warriors dps (go ahead and try to kill something in pvp without 20+ critrate) and the only way to do something is unexpactably huge crits with instant attacks.

Karadros
11-12-2006, 01:40 AM
I just like the swords.

Malrazor
11-12-2006, 11:00 AM
What Tseric wants to say is that in medium sized pvp encounters, let's say +/- 10 people, warriors can be a HUGE pain if kept up with solid healing backup. This is true for many reasons:

1) It takes time to kill them since they usually have one of the highest HP values (maybe feral druids and SL locks)
2) They have plate to reduce melee damage
3) They have a nearly full rage bar all the time if they get focus fired in a PvP encounter
4) They can dish out crazy damage with the correct gear

Sure, warriors suck in 1on1 or even 2on2 situations (although pala + warrior is a solid group) but I wouldn't miss having a good geared warrior charge into the enemy group (while staying within healing range ftw). The enemies can either try to get the warrior down asap, in which case healers can focus heal on ONE person while the ranged dps can inflict serious pain or they ignore the warrior and having a raging warmachine in their midst.

And as Tseric said, Blizzard is trying to reduce small (1on1 or 2on2) and very large (Alterac Valley shit) to a minimum. We have yet to see how a fully epixed lvl 70 warrior performs in a 5on5 arena with the right healing support.

Siona
12-12-2006, 09:36 AM
Why don't we just forget all this "NARF WARLOCK, LOL?!" bullshit and realise that Blizzard(as some posters above me have said) never meant encounters to be perfectly fair.
Instead, they meant for all classes to have their part in PvP.
I eat warriors... I eat rogues too if i get the first shot, but if they can stunlock me. i'm dead.
Warriors make a big difference, for an example when stopping flags or when assisting them. Ever try to keep a MSed flagrunner alive?
Mortal Strike, Intimidating Shout, Piercing Howl, Hamstring... All of those are not just a nuisance, but can be the difference between a successful cap/return at any time.
What do warlocks have that's similar?
Howl of terror? Fear? Both have casting timers, so at most times they are useless.
I must admit Deathcoil is a different matter, though, seeing as it's instant, but that's only one target per run.

Most of my examples are from group situations and not 1 on 1, but after all, battlegrounds are all about being a team.

Ogrosh
12-12-2006, 09:39 AM
DOT the flag runner, sit down for tea and crumpets, 30 seconds later return the flag.

Go go warlocks! :lol:

Siona
12-12-2006, 09:44 AM
As i said, my examples are from group situations, which means those DoTs would be dispelled after about 1.5sec. And there would be healing.

Ashborn
12-12-2006, 11:46 AM
And group situations are where a lot of the current problems with the class lie. I don't really see a lot changing in most 1v1 fights from pre-2.0, apart from the fact that just about everyone does more burst damage now. The damage I can pull in a group situations is just plain *wrong* a lot of the time tho. And affli locks rape healers so hard it's not even funny (lawl unstable affliction).

Kinshara
12-12-2006, 12:09 PM
Chucking seed of corruption on a focus-fired flag carrier will be fun :)

Siona
12-12-2006, 12:26 PM
How do you do that, Ashen?
Not to argument, just a question...
I must admit i haven't even tried Unstable Affliction yet, but it seems a bit overpowered really, now that you mention it.

Haplo
12-12-2006, 12:27 PM
Chucking seed of corruption on a focus-fired flag carrier will be fun :)

Death to all flag huggers!!!

Chonar
12-12-2006, 01:13 PM
A healer, a healer.
My battlecat for a healer.

Haplo
12-12-2006, 01:18 PM
lolled

Siona
12-12-2006, 01:30 PM
Flag+zergward=200HK WSG :P

Teatrixz0r
12-12-2006, 05:44 PM
Nether Protection > DoTs. Killing a warlock with that is just impossible. It keeps proccing and you can use any attack or CC on the other lock >_>.

Speccing UA to get the ultimate DoT power also removes most of your burst capabilities. And while amped CoA does a lot of damage, nearly 50% of it is in the last 6-8 seconds, wich you very often don't get to see, since the battle is usually over by then.

Edos
13-12-2006, 12:57 AM
I've been PvPing and PvEing with 46/5/0 for a while now (After a good amount of 0/5/46 ownage) and liked what I saw

Things I noticed about Affliction: :P

I get alot of killing blows thanks to dots finishing the job I start :twisted:

Paladins almost always dispel UA and kill themselves :lol:

When in AV I came out as top "Damage done" by far on most matches, the damage output when you have time to keep you're dots up and drain spamming is amazing (and sustainable! :razz: )

Affliction may lack burst damage but it gives you the ability to assure the death of your enemies, with the exception of healer classes nothing can survive a full dotting

Insta Howl of Terror is a god-send and is very usefull in group PvP (People beating on your flag carrier? Need to buy some time for the main group to reach you? People tagging a node? Rogue-Rape?)

Nothing to do with PvP but I can draintank lvl 60 elites and come out at full hp/mana without having to fear (excluding them pesky Darkwhisper gorge Felguards and Tainted scar mobs) :shock:

So, in all, Affliction seems to be THE group PvP/PvE spec :wink:

--Edit: The list of things I noticed in PvP looks messy :? --

Siona
13-12-2006, 02:28 AM
I've been 8/43/0 ever since the patch came(started playing last friday though). And i must say the Felguard is great, but relying on soul link is quite unreliable in PvP. What i can use it for is confusing enemies and stopping EFCs or enemy flagstoppers.
Problem is it nerfs my own damage by quite alot.

Chonar
13-12-2006, 02:30 AM
It was quite surprising being charged/intercepted by a warlock pet.

Not to mention one of em was fighting my tentacle the other day. Not a pretty sight I tellsya.

Siona
13-12-2006, 02:36 AM
o.O

Stim
13-12-2006, 11:36 PM
http://www.blizzard.com/wow/images/screens/insider/020/comics/ss79.jpg

Psonica
14-12-2006, 12:54 AM
Not to mention one of em was fighting my tentacle the other day. Not a pretty sight I tellsya.

Demon vs. Tentacle? FRAPS it and sell it for ridiculus amounts of money in Japan :)

I hear they have nerfed Fel Guard in Beta ... just as I went full Affliction it seems.