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Flawless
16-10-2006, 07:54 PM
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=34925108&sid=1

Warrior

Spells
* (NEW) Stance Mastery - “You retain up to 10 of your rage points when you change stances.”

Arms
* Blood Frenzy - Moved up a tier one column to the left of Mortal Strike. Now 2 ranks for 2/4%.
* (NEW) Improved Mortal Strike - "Reduces the cooldown of your Mortal Strike ability by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 sec and increases the damage it causes by 1/2/3/4/5%."
* Second Wind - Reduced to 2 ranks, now "Whenever you are struck by a Stun or Immobilize effect you will generate 10/20 rage and 5/10% of your total health over 10 sec."
* Endless Rage - Now a passive effect. "You generate 15% more rage from damage dealt and taken."

Fury
* Rampage - Rank 1 (30 AP), Rank 2 (40 AP), Rank 3 (50 AP).
* Improved Berserker Stance - Now 5 ranks for 2/4/6/8/10% bonus.
* Improved Pummel - Removed.
* Improved Whirlwind - Now "Reduces the cooldown of your Whirlwind ability by 1/2 sec."

Protection
* Improved Bloodrage - Moved up one tier and generates 3/6 rage.
* Improved Shield Block - Reduced to 1 rank, duration bonus increased from .5 sec to 1 sec.
* Tactical Mastery - Reduced to 3 ranks. Now "You retain up to an additional 5/10/15 of your rage points when you change stances." Also see the new trainer bought spell “Stance Mastery” which gives you 10 rage retention when switching stances.
* Last Stand - Cooldown reduced to 8 minutes, from 10.

sara
16-10-2006, 09:59 PM
Apparently enough whining *will* get you what you want...

Ansharok
16-10-2006, 10:28 PM
HA.

LE.

LU.

JA!

only question now is... should we just increase whining until we get everything we ever dream of :p

otoh, unless the entire warrior class was revamped there IS no way we would be effective without TM. so TM is (under current circumstances) a must have talent, which blizzard has said shouldnt exist. well finally an admission that 99% of warriors actually know what they're talking about.

Ansharok
16-10-2006, 10:36 PM
hang on...

Spells
# (NEW) Stance Mastery - “You retain up to 10 of your rage points when you change stances.”

what the hell? UP TO? so it could mean 1 rage? and its a spell, not a passive. so you have to activate this first, THEN hope you have more than 2 rage when you're DYING to pummel or intercept? I'm starting to suspect this isnt the gift package we think... we're probably being given this just to shut us up for long enough to nerf us again.

Thrane
16-10-2006, 10:44 PM
New spells = trainable stuff. So it'll be passive.

Ansharok
16-10-2006, 10:52 PM
ok. it's my bedtime. cant even think straight :p paranoia has gotten the better of me. thats what will happen if you spend too much time in AV you know. frustration and paranoia.

Karadros
16-10-2006, 11:54 PM
THANK FUCK

Kinshara
17-10-2006, 01:26 AM
hang on...

Spells
# (NEW) Stance Mastery - “You retain up to 10 of your rage points when you change stances.”

what the hell? UP TO? so it could mean 1 rage? and its a spell, not a passive. so you have to activate this first, THEN hope you have more than 2 rage when you're DYING to pummel or intercept? I'm starting to suspect this isnt the gift package we think... we're probably being given this just to shut us up for long enough to nerf us again.

Think it just means if you have less than 10 rage, you don't suddenly generate more by switching stance. It's just the max rage you can transfer without the 3 points in prot. (Same wording for the current talent, is it not?)

Plus, yes, it's a spell -- but the text says "Passive", so you don't have to activate it. Much the same with Paladin's Spiritual Attunement, a new passive "spell".

AnteroVipune
17-10-2006, 04:47 AM
HA.

LE.

LU.

JA!

only question now is... should we just increase whining until we get everything we ever dream of :p

otoh, unless the entire warrior class was revamped there IS no way we would be effective without TM. so TM is (under current circumstances) a must have talent, which blizzard has said shouldnt exist. well finally an admission that 99% of warriors actually know what they're talking about.

TM isn't necessary in any specc.

Iyachtu
17-10-2006, 05:39 AM
ofc not, you can choose not to have it and be next to useless.

Decebalus
17-10-2006, 08:22 AM
TM isn't necessary in any specc.

but, but... how are we going to overpower rogues without it?... :P

Flawless
17-10-2006, 09:03 AM
TM isn't necessary in any specc.

you can play without it, your just gimping yourself by wasting rage everytime you need to switch stance... you know life trading your leg for nothing in american football :P

Slicer
17-10-2006, 09:57 AM
Hmm, apparently it's now possible to get both MS and bloodthirst...

God knows how this works, I assume it's a talent calculator bug or one like the MS / death wish.

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/warrior/talents.html?0502302034201052000100005050124005012 05010000000000000000000000000

Ashborn
17-10-2006, 10:01 AM
It's possible to link *any* build on the talent calculator. It only checks prereqs and such when you're making it, the link just allocates points and assumes they're correct, and is very easy to modify.

Chonar
17-10-2006, 10:56 AM
TM isn't necessary in any specc.

Does stealth cost 100% energy?

Ansharok
17-10-2006, 11:32 AM
@ chonar. word.

TM is about as much a choice as... it's not a choice. it just isnt. if you've played a warrior you know.

Flawless
17-10-2006, 11:39 AM
doesn't ante have a warrior alt?

Chonar
17-10-2006, 01:43 PM
doesn't ante have a warrior alt?

He does, his opinion is based around levelling to 60 with numerous builds, and then speccing tank-only.

Ergo, give him a /pat and send him on his way.

:P

Jarelan
17-10-2006, 01:48 PM
And its a female dorf warrior, we all know those dont exist.

Fintan
17-10-2006, 01:54 PM
And its a female dorf warrior, we all pretend those dont exist for the sake of our sex drives.

Fixed.

Decebalus
17-10-2006, 02:22 PM
TM is about as much a choice as... it's not a choice. it just isnt. if you've played a warrior you know.

please describe the scenarios in which you NEED TM while raiding... try to skip the "my taunt was ressisted and i need to use Mocking Blow"... or i need to go battle stance to overpower...

Karadros
17-10-2006, 02:26 PM
And those two scenarios aren't enough?
If TM wasn't a necessity then Warrior abilities shouldn't be dependant on stance.

Kabhanda
17-10-2006, 02:41 PM
No raid build ever needs over 2 points in TM, its perfectly possible to cope with 0.

5/5 TM is for pvp.

Karadros
17-10-2006, 02:48 PM
And max DPS. Which you should be if you're not a raid tank.

Chonar
17-10-2006, 02:50 PM
No raid build ever needs over 2 points in TM, its perfectly possible to cope with 0.

5/5 TM is for pvp.

And any amount of ingenious play where you're forced to adapt and react to rapidly changing scenarios. Which doesnt limit itself to PVP.

I know I've saved countless clothies with a quick intercept-mocking blow combo, and I will continue to do so.

For you non-warriors out there: Intercept is only usable in zerk stance, mocking blow only in battle stance.

Decebalus
17-10-2006, 03:23 PM
I know I've saved countless clothies with a quick intercept-mocking blow combo, and I will continue to do so.

why would you use Mocking Blow after an Intercept and not simply Taunt?...

Flawless
17-10-2006, 03:45 PM
I know I've saved countless clothies with a quick intercept-mocking blow combo, and I will continue to do so.

why would you use Mocking Blow after an Intercept and not simply Taunt?...its gaurenteed to hit with the right amount of +hit as its considered an instant attack and not a spell like Challenging or taunt.

Chonar
17-10-2006, 04:27 PM
That, and three more reasons:


I often do this after taunting, since other tanks (who lost the mob in the first place) tend to get stunned / miss / get taunt resisted, so my taunt is on cooldown.
I use stancesets, which switches my weapons to shield+onehander when in defensive stance. In zerk and battle stance I have the same weapons, so when switching from one to the other, I dont need to worry about global cooldowns being triggered from switching weapons.
Mocking Blow hate isn't as lasting as taunt hate. The mob I'm after needs to be picked up by the warrior who lost it, after I stop it from one-shotting cloth.

XeX4
30-10-2006, 08:08 PM
im still trying to understand how the hell a passive spell has a rage cost...

AnteroVipune
30-10-2006, 09:03 PM
Also quit whining about TM.
Rouges also "have to specc" Lethality. Dagger rouges "have to specc" lethality AND opportunity.

You're not the only one with "must have talents".

Ashborn
30-10-2006, 09:11 PM
You're not the only one with "must have talents".
QFT.

Kabhanda
30-10-2006, 09:22 PM
Like holy nova!

Akrea
30-10-2006, 10:12 PM
And Lightwell!

Alverion
30-10-2006, 10:36 PM
Improved Throw

elog
31-10-2006, 12:32 PM
I with Ante on this one. I never understood the amount of whine around TM being in the prot tree (where it makes the most sense).

Loads of talent trees have must have talents that forces the player to choose the good talent x or the good talent y.

Karadros
31-10-2006, 03:00 PM
I with Ante on this one. I never understood the amount of whine around TM being in the prot tree (where it makes the most sense).

it DOESN'T make the most sense in there!
If you're speccing Prot then you're being a Tank and as a tank you don't need to switch stances. Sure, if someone buggers up and you switch to Battle, Mocking and back to Def, you're still getting bashed so you have all the rage you need.

DPS warriors (more specifically Overpower-specced) need to switch between Berserker and Battle and so need all the rage they can get. No sense in TM being in Prot for non-tanks.

elog
31-10-2006, 03:13 PM
I think it makes the most sense in the prot. tree ;) That is not the main point though - the main point is that DPS warriors whined since they could not do the 30/31 or 31/30 builds they had wet dreams about.

A class with more candy than you can get across 3 trees means to me that the talent trees are well designed. And no warrior can say anything about warrior DPS yet (in WoW 1.x it is extremely high and in WoW 2.x we do not know yet). So all-in-all, I never understood why warriors whined so much when our talent update for 2.0 was one of the best ones (we already had two awsome trees and then protection became good as well).

Taurusos
31-10-2006, 08:09 PM
I with Ante on this one. I never understood the amount of whine around TM being in the prot tree (where it makes the most sense).

it DOESN'T make the most sense in there!
If you're speccing Prot then you're being a Tank and as a tank you don't need to switch stances. Sure, if someone buggers up and you switch to Battle, Mocking and back to Def, you're still getting bashed so you have all the rage you need.

DPS warriors (more specifically Overpower-specced) need to switch between Berserker and Battle and so need all the rage they can get. No sense in TM being in Prot for non-tanks.

Actually, think again.

Elog is right.

One word for a protection warrior: Zerk rage. Fundamental. You do want rage when going back to def stance.

And u wont have a problem with overpower at least, since we now get "Stance mastery" trainable.

Things are fine for warriors.

After playing beta however, I havent seen the rage gen myself.

I can say one thing, Felguard will be start of wave of warriors crying.

Felguard at its current state is overpowered. Although many warlocks argue the fact that they will even consider going that deep (41p) into demonolgy.

/Tau

Tsarina
31-10-2006, 09:38 PM
I think it makes the most sense in the prot. tree ;) That is not the main point though - the main point is that DPS warriors whined since they could not do the 30/31 or 31/30 builds they had wet dreams about.
For raid DPS, it's not a problem. I never change stance anyway. At least not as DW. Overpower isn't worth the big (in most cases) rage loss and overpower would be all I used it for.

But for PvP it's a huge problem. You can't play anywhere near full potential in PvP without frequent stance changing. And to a lot of people, even raiders, PvP is an important part of the game. And more importantly: It's an important part of the game for Blizzard. And prot spec is not the spec of choice for most PvPing warriors.

Kinshara
31-10-2006, 09:55 PM
But for PvP it's a huge problem. You can't play anywhere near full potential in PvP without frequent stance changing. And to a lot of people, even raiders, PvP is an important part of the game. And more importantly: It's an important part of the game for Blizzard. And prot spec is not the spec of choice for most PvPing warriors.

I'm guessing they're trying to change that, at least a little -- much nicer path to last stand. Most people probably won't go past that ofc.

AnteroVipune
31-10-2006, 09:57 PM
Sure it's a good talent. VEry good. But people have to stop acting like warriors are the only class with must-have-talents.

Thrane
31-10-2006, 09:58 PM
Sure it's a good talent. VEry good. But people have to stop acting like warriors are the only class with must-have-talents.

Didn't stop mages and druids, now did it?

fantasy
01-11-2006, 01:09 AM
well every class contains whiners. but cant understand it tho. wars can tank have plate and can dish a HELL out of dps with the right gear.
so i beg for a dps nerf. even if i'm going to have a warrior main in tbc <.<

Meri
01-11-2006, 03:04 AM
Also quit whining about TM.
Rouges also "have to specc" Lethality. Dagger rouges "have to specc" lethality AND opportunity.

You're not the only one with "must have talents".

Adrenaline Rush + Prep rocks your sox more than Lethality. :P (and having all your cooldowns on 3,5 minute timers with that build is hella nice too, as is the extra threat reduction from feint). I think the mid twenties subtlety/31+ combat build will prove very powerful.

AnteroVipune
01-11-2006, 08:43 AM
Also quit whining about TM.
Rouges also "have to specc" Lethality. Dagger rouges "have to specc" lethality AND opportunity.

You're not the only one with "must have talents".

Adrenaline Rush + Prep rocks your sox more than Lethality. :P (and having all your cooldowns on 3,5 minute timers with that build is hella nice too, as is the extra threat reduction from feint). I think the mid twenties subtlety/31+ combat build will prove very powerful.

For sword outdoor PVP-build maybe. And just maybe.
Extra threat reduction from feint is next to useless tho :P

Moriartus
01-11-2006, 11:08 AM
well every class contains whiners. but cant understand it tho. wars can tank have plate and can dish a HELL out of dps with the right gear.
so i beg for a dps nerf. even if i'm going to have a warrior main in tbc <.<
It's harder to get 'the right gear' as a warrior. Other than the PVP gear it's really hard to get set of DPS gear comparable to the gear rogues get for DPS. There isn't a great dps chest until about AQ40. Plus plate is bloody useless against casters and anyone else you can't get close to. We get no ranged ability, no escape powers, we can't stop people hitting us apart from a couple of stun powers if you're prot or mace spec. Sure we have plate and high dps but we have bugger all else.

elog
01-11-2006, 11:15 AM
I am at least coming from the perspective of well-geared warriors. I see not reason to complain at all. We are one of the most wanted classes in PvE for pure tank reasons. We are one of the most wanted classes in PvE for pure DPS reasons (up there with the rogues in fights that matter - a few % less DMG done in a long fight).

In PvP we are so-so for doing things alone and pure destroyers with the right back-up (in a way few other classes can match).

<Blizzard moves TM to the prot tree>

Oh noes - DPS warriors need to spend a few points in prot to be able to stance dance. For warriors doing anything in PvE this does not matter. For pure PvP warriors the 30/31 or 31/30 builds look less promising.

Exactly what was the problem again? ;)

Chonar
01-11-2006, 11:35 AM
In PvP we are so-so for doing things alone and pure destroyers with the right back-up (in a way few other classes can match).

Exactly what was the problem again? ;)

Feral druids, Retri paladins and Shadowpriests.

Faylin
01-11-2006, 12:08 PM
Exactly what was the problem again? ;)

Feral druids that don't want to heal, Retri paladins that don't want to heal and Shadowpriests that don't want to heal.

editted for correctness.

Chonar
01-11-2006, 01:59 PM
Exactly what was the problem again? ;)

Feral druids that don't want to heal, Retri paladins that don't want to heal and Shadowpriests that don't want to heal.

editted for correctness.

What did you change? I dont see anything changed. Did you change anything?

Graze
24-11-2006, 12:44 AM
I'm curious, is nobody gonna try MS with flurry? Or is it gonna be all about 41 points?

Graze
24-11-2006, 12:45 AM
I'm curious, is nobody gonna try MS with flurry? Or is it gonna be all about 41 points?

Onkelswe
24-11-2006, 03:17 AM
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/warrior/talents.html?0502302034201052000100005050124005012 05010000000000000000000000000#none
makes me giggle. Rogues will hate me, orcish stun resist, Iron Will and Second Wind.
Stun away... nubs!