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Bunneh
19-09-2006, 03:40 PM
I'm a Protection spec warrior and enjoy it immensely, may take me a while to grind mobs on me own, but not to fussed about that.

I'm just wondering if other warriors have as much trouble as me when it comes to tanking multiple mobs. I find that I can easily tank anything up to 3 mobs without any problems, but have found that once it starts to be more everything seems to meld into one. My eyes just cannot keep up.

I happily tank in ZG/MC and AQ20, as most of the time it's just one or two mobs, rather than a huge splattering of them. Any tips for tanking multiple mobs would be greatly appreciated :)

Should I also get a slower weapon for just grinding? Currently I'm using the Fiery Retributor (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=51909) from ZG and it's quite rapid, should I shell out for a slower one hand weapon? I have tried duel wield but I seem to take things even slower when grinding for rep/cash etc.

Thanks :)

modi
19-09-2006, 06:30 PM
aye i have same prob

try using challenging shout in extreme cases:P

Gwynin
19-09-2006, 11:01 PM
from what I remember when grinding with a shield equipted, it can actually give alot of pain to mobs with shield slam.
so maybe dual wield isnt the first thing to go for, maybe even more so if you lack really good dps 1hs

/tired :)

Fintan
19-09-2006, 11:41 PM
From my (Limited to 5 and 10 man instance)experience as a protection warrior I found it depended on the type of mobs in question. For example, I very very rarely found myself having to tank more than 3 elite mobs at any one time, simply because large groups of elites in the 5 man instances are usually CC'd to buggery, leaving you with a few to deal with.

What I assume you mean is where you get hordes of non-elites accompianied by a few elites. In this sort of situation there's a couple of things you can do. Whatever you decide to do, Demoralising shout is your friend, and depending on how you're specc'd, piercing howl as well. Non-Elites die to AoE incredibly quickly, so it's simply a case of keeping them grouped, which shouldn't be a problem if your DPS has given you a chance to gather them first. You can sometimes try to grab their aggro seperately, but it's usually impossible unless you have an offtank to keep an elite or two busy. After all, if you have to let a mob hit your squishies, rather a non-elite than an elite eh? :wink:

What I find is incredibly effective if your healers are confident enough is to start with a 2 hander, charge and lay down a whirlwind and a cleave or two. Then switch to your 1 hander and grab the elites before they come under concentrated DPS. By the time AoE has grabbed the non-elites they'll be as good as dead and you'll be sundering and revenging the elites like there's no tomorrow.

Sorry for the rather limited post, but I hope you can extract something of use :)

Edit: On the weapon note, I usually use my normal MH, Thekals Grasp. It's 2.2 weapon speed with 49 DPS so althought it's a little slow, the extra damage quite often makes up for it. Grab yourself a bloodlords defender and you'll be laughing all the way to the phat loot. :D

Karadros
20-09-2006, 12:07 AM
Tank in Berserker with a 2h!
Just need good healers.

Bunneh
20-09-2006, 08:53 AM
Okay cheers Fintan and Mazul (say hi to Matok for me), and a big hug to Karadros too for making my guild healers cry :)

I'll see if they need an extra tank for ZG this evening, and get me Bloodlord's Defender - I have the DKP :P

Decebalus
20-09-2006, 09:55 AM
just out of curiosity... where do you need to tank more then 3 adds at a time?...

generally for multiple adds: Demo Shout, Battle Shout, Thunderclap, Whirlwind, Cleave...

as for farming i think you are much better using a 2h... and another stance then defensive... :P

Anatta
20-09-2006, 10:16 AM
For grinding, slower weapons give bigger overpowers, bigger whirlwinds, bigger MSs (although you don't have it) and bigger damage on the second target of cleave, as well as a larger cost to using heroic strike and cleave, as you lose the rage from the white damage that the attack replaces. Similarly faster weapons mean less rage cost of using heroic strike, but giving the same bonus damage. So basically.. whatever weapon has the highest DPS :p

As you're a (or maybe the?) tank master, I'll not tell you how to tank - just give the advice that it's better to hold aggro on two out of three mobs, than to almost have aggro on all three. If DPS want to start on a mob as soon as it's pulled, they can tank it - you can concentrate on building aggro on the rest for when they're done with it.

Oh, and piercing howl generates almost no threat (much less than demoralising shout), but the snare effect is useful if you expect to lose aggro. Battle Shout spam is also useful in a few cases where a great number of mobs are coming, and everyone in your party is considered in combat with them - it works well in phase 1 of Nefarian, and might be useful for Arlokk if you use an add-tanking strategy (not too sure if everyone is on the adds' aggro list initially or not).

http://evilempireguild.org/guides/kenco2.php If you do need to learn to tank :-x

Bunneh
20-09-2006, 11:59 AM
just out of curiosity... where do you need to tank more then 3 adds at a time?...



Bad pulls in UBRS where 5 Orcses come charging at us :( Sunken Temple, 5 dragons at once in certain areas, although I seemed to handle that quite well at the time. My eyes, however, seem to lose track of more than 3 mobs, especially if they're dragons as they fill my screen.

For example, if we're short a tank in UBRS (normally take two tanks) when you get to the last few rooms you start to get groups of 3+ mobs. Then I have to tank multiple mobs, I find myself running everywhere, taunting, because no one concentrates their fire on one mob at a time, dps is spread over various mobs.

@Anatta - I'll never be a tank master :) I can keep aggro well, and really enjoy tanking massive giants in Molten Core, it's a real buzz to be able to run in, grab a mob and then hold aggro from 30 or so other people doing insane DPS :)

Thanks for the information, it's greatly appreciated, I shall check out the link and see how I get on later this evening - being dragged into ZG kicking and screaming :)

Oh is 420 Def enough for tanking the Bloodlord?

Cheers guys :)

Tsarina
20-09-2006, 12:06 PM
Then I have to tank multiple mobs, I find myself running everywhere, taunting, because no one concentrates their fire on one mob at a time, dps is spread over various mobs.

That's the key to successful tanking right there. Being in a disciplined group. If you get the impression it's a group of people that are willing and able to listen, tell them which target to take first. If they're on your main target, tanking several mobs is easy.

Faylin
20-09-2006, 01:23 PM
Nice link Tsarina.. funny that I;ve noticed myself one of the statements not to be true:

Direct damage or casting a debuff on the mob. Some debuffs, notably mind vision and hunters mark, wont put you on the mobs threat list.

I -certainly- once caused aggro by Mindvision: I mindvisioned the paladin that was pulling firemaw. When he bubbled Firemaw went for...me :)

Taurusos
20-09-2006, 02:20 PM
Wow...

Read through it all fast...

Key to successfull tanking isnt our AE type shouts and attacks...

Its the ability of you as a warrior to change target from second to second and develope hate by adding sunder/revenge and so on to different targets in fast transition. And dont spam taunt, you are not a bloody hunters pet.

Taunt grabs attention, you utilising your other skills make the target/s stay.

/Tau

Utena
20-09-2006, 02:44 PM
Taunt increases your threat to 110% of the player currently topping the mobs threat list, its not a skill to be underestimated... although it is practically useless without combining it with the rest of your skills :D

Ashborn
20-09-2006, 02:46 PM
Taunt increases your threat to 110% of the player currently topping the mobs threat list, its not a skill to be underestimated... although it is practically useless without combining it with the rest of your skills :D
100%, actually, hence the mob goes back to the old target if you don't actually generate any threat while it's in effect.

Utena
20-09-2006, 02:48 PM
hmmm

Kabhanda
20-09-2006, 03:00 PM
110% now ashybaby

Got changed in (1.11 I think) so that even if you do nothing a taunted mob will stick.

Ashborn
20-09-2006, 03:12 PM
Ah, I'm out of the loop then.

Anatta
20-09-2006, 03:44 PM
My understanding is that taunt used to give you the threat value of the current aggro target, and give a debuff forcing the mob to target you for the duration. You would not, however, be set at the mob's aggro target and so would have to build 10% of the threat that the previous aggro target had in order to hold aggro after the debuff wears off.

The new version gives you the threat value of the current aggro target, places a debuff that forces the mob to target you for the duration, and sets you as the aggro target. If you taunt and do nothing, you will keep aggro until someone's threat is 10/30% (depending on their range from the mob) above yours.

The new version makes fights where you must change tanks much more predicatable, as during a long fight that 10% to hold aggro would become a large, unatainable amount so the mob would keep reverting to previous tanks. If you ever had whatever-that-drake-who-heals-himself-is-called keep turning back to one tank even when he was just standing still whilst someone taunted off him, you were seeing the old taunt in action.

edit: If taunt gave 110% aggro of the current aggro target, you could have two warriors taunting off eachother, generating limitless and exponential threat - handy!

Bunneh
21-09-2006, 09:29 AM
Tanked Bloodlord last night, I just love doing that, guy hits hard. Lost our Priest towards the end as our off tank was splatted by the Raptor and I died due to that lack of healing with him at 2%, he ran off feared everyone. Managed to get a res off the ghosties, grabbed him again and we finished it. We normally have 3 tanks, with two off tanking the Raptor itself, just changing as it sunders each tank, but we only had two tanks last night, so it was a tad harder.

I got Bloodsoaked Pauldrons for 8dkp, which will be added to my armour collection :) Think I have 4 sets of shoulders now.

Tanked Spider lady, well shared tanking, bastard resisted my initial taunts, I could not get aggro because people were still doing DPS on her when she was in the group, but we reset and then it went flawlessly - the macro in /rs kinda helped 'STOP DPS!' :P

Never got to Tony, Panther and Hakkar, ran out of time, but we're in again tonight to finish the job, hopefully :)

THank you so much for the tips guys, the site that was linked is awesome and really opened my eyes.

Moomonde
23-09-2006, 09:23 AM
tab, sunder, tab, sunder, tab, sunder

Chopper
23-09-2006, 10:04 AM
tab, sunder, tab, sunder, tab, sunder

Yeah, I get wowglider to do that for me while I spend the raid afk. :roll:

Valoran
23-09-2006, 01:27 PM
Nice link Tsarina.. funny that I;ve noticed myself one of the statements not to be true:

Direct damage or casting a debuff on the mob. Some debuffs, notably mind vision and hunters mark, wont put you on the mobs threat list.

I -certainly- once caused aggro by Mindvision: I mindvisioned the paladin that was pulling firemaw. When he bubbled Firemaw went for...me :)
When you regen mana, you get threat depending on the value, as you were in combat (and thus on flappymaws hate list) the mana you gained after casting mind vision may have been the cause of your aggro pulling.

Bunneh
27-09-2006, 10:31 AM
Well I'm improving! I was tanking mulitple targets in DiM/BRD and Scholo yesterday and had a damn good time. Now to get me a better MH sword (Bloodlord's hopefully) and I should be fitted.

Cheers for the help guys :)

Faylin
27-09-2006, 10:40 AM
Nice link Tsarina.. funny that I;ve noticed myself one of the statements not to be true:

Direct damage or casting a debuff on the mob. Some debuffs, notably mind vision and hunters mark, wont put you on the mobs threat list.

I -certainly- once caused aggro by Mindvision: I mindvisioned the paladin that was pulling firemaw. When he bubbled Firemaw went for...me :)
When you regen mana, you get threat depending on the value, as you were in combat (and thus on flappymaws hate list) the mana you gained after casting mind vision may have been the cause of your aggro pulling.

Oops. Missed your post. Fair point.. I guess that must have been it.

Ilks
20-10-2006, 02:00 PM
I use challenging shout to get initial aggro, then one sunder per mob in succession, and then I spam heroic strike/block/revenge on each mob.

Taunt gives you 110% of the threat that the mob has at the top of its threat table, for about 10 seconds. After that your aggro returns to its previous value, with the addition of any other threat you applied after, eg from sunders, revenge etc. A benefit of taunt is that once you have the mob focussing on you, you are able to block then revenge for lots of threat. You can quite easily pick up a mob and keep it on you with the revenge method, and the occasional sunder, as your threat will build up faster and you gain a LOT more rage due to the focus.

Hope this makes sense. Half asleep at work and bored shetless >.<

Kabhanda
20-10-2006, 03:58 PM
It doesn't make sense for one reason, what you say about taunt is bullshit, the truth is earlier in this thread.

Cassina
21-10-2006, 05:41 AM
Shame challenging shout is on such a long cooldown eh?
Better to run in, thunderclap, demo shout then focus on elites.
Battle Shout is also nice for aggro.

The above only applies to stuff like Scholo though, if you're pulling Firemaw you only need to bloodrage.

Ajial
21-10-2006, 08:40 AM
It doesn't make sense for one reason, what you say about taunt is bullshit, the truth is earlier in this thread.

Hmm yea.. why is this thread even still gong? Like Khl said the answer was giving like on the 4th or 5th post :P