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View Full Version : Talents vs. Game mechanics, how does it work?


Sikki
11-07-2006, 12:45 PM
I haven't spent a lot of time going in to this, but the time i've spent didn't give me any results.

Warlock Affliction tree, Supression talent, 5/5, "Reduces the chance for enemies to resist your affliction spells by 10%".

Fear is an affliction spell.

Priest Discipline tree, Unbreakable Will talent, 5/5, "Increases your chance to resist stun, fear, and silence effects by 15%.

The base hit chance of spells, pvp, level 60 vs. level 60 is 97% (not sure about this).

So here comes the real question. If i have Supression, and priest has Unbreakable Will, and i have +8% spell hit chance from equipment and if we leave resistances out of the equation, i should have 100% chance to fear the priest? Is this kind of calculation even possible?

Also, if someone happens to know, does +spell hit % on my gear affect pet spells too?

Ashborn
11-07-2006, 01:47 PM
Fear is a binary spell, so you have to factor in resist chance from resistances too. I'm not entirely sure, but I think suppression can counter both resist chance from talent and from resistances, whereas +hit gear only works for level based resists (and probably gets checked before suppression, so they would 'stack' so to speak but only up to 3% +hit would ever get factored in). Never seen any concrete info on this so I'm really just speculating here based on how the mechanics generally work. Also, base hit chance vs an equal level target is 96%, but you can only go up to 99%. +hit doesn't work on pet spell, nor does spell penetration, pet spells are cast by the pet and as such you gear doesn't matter.

Anyhow, if I'm right about this, with full suppression and 3% spell hit (or more) you should have a 94% chance to land a fear on a priest with 5/5 unbreakable will and zero shadow resistance (either via spell penetration, cos, or just none to begin with).

Kabhanda
11-07-2006, 03:59 PM
Reduces the chance for enemies to resist your spells by X% is exactly the same as =X% chance to hit with spells.

Reduces your enemies resistance to your spells by X is exactly the same as spell penetration.

By its wording unbreakable will should function in this case like a level based resist and be counterable with +hit (and talents which function like it). Assuming the priest had shadow prot up you would still need a CoS (and depending on the priests gear some spell pene) to be 'sure' (as in 1% resist chance) of it landing.

Sikki
11-07-2006, 03:59 PM
The rest makes sense, and i didn't want to include spell resistances into this in the first place.

But are you saying that more than +3% spell hit chance is useless in general, or just in this scenario?

Kabhanda
11-07-2006, 04:02 PM
Against a same level target 3% hit is all you need, so for pvp/grinding its useless past that.

For raiding you need upto (is it 17 or 21 for a 3 level up target?) +hit to get down to only 1% resist on bosses.

Ashborn
11-07-2006, 04:14 PM
For raiding you need upto (is it 17 or 21 for a 3 level up target?) +hit to get down to only 1% resist on bosses.
Fairly sure the resist chance for a boss is 17%, so you'd need 16.

Ashborn
11-07-2006, 04:16 PM
Reduces the chance for enemies to resist your spells by X% is exactly the same as =X% chance to hit with spells.
Seen some claims to the contrary (specifically concerning how suppression works), but I suppose that's just random forum idiots who don't know what they're talking about. Although from an empirical point of view, the difference is amount of resists on binary spells (mostly dots) vs targets with reasonably high resistances (namely, priests) with and without suppression is very noticeable. And no, I'm not imagining things.

dantheman
11-07-2006, 04:20 PM
For raiding you need upto (is it 17 or 21 for a 3 level up target?) +hit to get down to only 1% resist on bosses.
Fairly sure the resist chance for a boss is 17%, so you'd need 16.

Resist chance on a boss is 17% aye

Sikki
11-07-2006, 05:24 PM
Reduces the chance for enemies to resist your spells by X% is exactly the same as =X% chance to hit with spells.

Reduces your enemies resistance to your spells by X is exactly the same as spell penetration.

By its wording unbreakable will should function in this case like a level based resist and be counterable with +hit (and talents which function like it). Assuming the priest had shadow prot up you would still need a CoS (and depending on the priests gear some spell pene) to be 'sure' (as in 1% resist chance) of it landing.

If this is true (and there's no reason to believe it's not), thanks for your answers, it mostly answered everything i wanted to know.

Conclusion, if we disregard resistances, full supression and +7% hit would get you to 99% hit chance with fear, and that's all you one can get. Interesting.