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View Full Version : Rogue review - First Glimpse


AnteroVipune
03-07-2006, 01:06 AM
The review is well underway and we wanted to share a sort of first glimpse into the changes being made for the rogue talent review. Keep in mind that these changes are not complete or final, and the below information is likely to alter as we move into our testing phases. While not everything is listed, the below list encompasses the majority of changes being made in the review.

I'll be working in the weeks to come to get as much additional information as possible, but it is likely that quite a bit of the final information regarding talent changes will not be fully announced until the talent calculators go live. Of course you'll also be able to actually play around with the changes too once the Public Test Realms go up.

I'm going to just list the changes and provide additional information where possible or necessary. Let's get to it.

# The following talents have been removed: Improved Deadly Poison, Improved Distract, Throwing Weapon Specialization, Improved Vanish, and Rapid Concealment.

# Improved Instant Poison is now "Improved Poisons" and increases your chance to apply ALL poisons by 2/4/6/8/10%.

# Rapid Concealment has been merged with Camouflage, by combining these talents you not only get a great talent to start off the tree, but obviously it frees up a number of points to be spent elsewhere.

# Murder will now also apply to all finishing moves. The benefit this will provide to output and attack combinations is fairly straightforward.

# Vile Poisons now gives your poisons a chance to resist dispel effects, in addition to increasing poison damage.

# Improved Kidney Shot has been changed, and will instead increase the damage taken by the target while they are affected by Kidney Shot. This talent no longer reduces the cooldown of Kidney Shot.

# Improved Sprint has been changed, and will instead have a 50/100% chance to remove all movement impairing effects when you activate your Sprint ability. This talent no longer reduces the cooldown of Sprint.

# Improved Evasion renamed to Endurance, and will add a Sprint cooldown reduction.

# New talent Weapon Expertise in the Combat tree, increases your weapon skill with all melee weapons. The recovery of damage with an increased weapon skill should be a good boost to overall output.

# Initiative is being reduced to a 3 point talent, but resulting in the same 75% end chance to add an additional combo point.

# Elusiveness is being reduced to a 3 point talent, but resulting in the same 75 sec cooldown reduction to Evasion, Blind, and Vanish.

# Ghostly Strike now has a reduced Energy cost, the reduction of Energy was enough to make it necessary to also reduce the damage output slightly.

# Improved Garrotes damage reduction will be removed. This is being changed as part of an overall improvement for Garrote.

# Setup is being moved higher up in the tree, becoming a 16 point talent with no prerequisites, helping move the talent in reach of specific builds.

# New talent Heightened Senses in the subtlety tree, increases your Stealth detection, and reduces the chance for you to be hit by spells and ranged attacks.

# Hemorrhage will be moved up in the tree to become a 21 point talent. This should help to place the ability in a more reachable position, and allow for a little more versatility with specific talent builds.

# New talent Deadliness in the Subtlety tree, increases your Attack Power by a percentage.

# Premeditation will have its Energy requirement removed, changed to an instant cast, and range increased. Its cooldown will remain the same. Premeditation will now be pre-reqd by Preperation.

# Vanish will now remove effects that allow the caster to remain aware of the rogues presence, such as Mind Vision and Hunters Mark.

# Garrote, Rupture, and Eviscerate are being increased in damage. More details to come.

# Expose Armor will now reduce armor by a percentage.

I'll be continuing to speak with the designers and collecting as much additional information as possible in the coming weeks.

Thanks for reading.


Looks good to me.

Turiel
03-07-2006, 01:33 AM
Looks shit to me. No cooldown reduction on ks anymore. And everything else is either crap I still wont use or a minor change. The only thing that looks like a buff is heightened senses, will have to see how much 'avoiding' of ranged attacks though.

edit: deadliness looks good actually :P

Tzel
03-07-2006, 01:44 AM
Not that exciting tbh.
Where did u get this from btw?

Cant believe they removed Throwing Weapon Specialization....
the vanish is good but the ranged attack chance to avoid sounds like bull.... every hunter got +gazilion % to hit so its gonna b diminished by that probably.

Khalam
03-07-2006, 05:01 AM
oh my god, win

Jurgan
03-07-2006, 05:45 AM
Shite... vanish remove Hunter's Mark now? Yay cheer... fuckbollocks ftl. Looks like all the Rogues permawhinging paid off eh?

Taurusos
03-07-2006, 06:48 AM
A source perhaps?

/Tau

Chizmate
03-07-2006, 06:50 AM
A source perhaps?

/Tau

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=1271292&p=1&tmp=1#post1271292

Taurusos
03-07-2006, 06:51 AM
A source perhaps?

/Tau

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=1271292&p=1&tmp=1#post1271292

Tnx man.

/Tau

Ashborn
03-07-2006, 07:47 AM
# Improved Instant Poison is now "Improved Poisons" and increases your chance to apply ALL poisons by 2/4/6/8/10%.

# Improved Sprint has been changed, and will instead have a 50/100% chance to remove all movement impairing effects when you activate your Sprint ability. This talent no longer reduces the cooldown of Sprint.

# New talent Weapon Expertise in the Combat tree, increases your weapon skill with all melee weapons. The recovery of damage with an increased weapon skill should be a good boost to overall output.

# New talent Deadliness in the Subtlety tree, increases your Attack Power by a percentage.

# Vanish will now remove effects that allow the caster to remain aware of the rogues presence, such as Mind Vision and Hunters Mark.

# Garrote, Rupture, and Eviscerate are being increased in damage. More details to come.

# Expose Armor will now reduce armor by a percentage.
These in particular seem very nice. Also:

# New talent Heightened Senses in the subtlety tree, increases your Stealth detection, and reduces the chance for you to be hit by spells and ranged attacks.
I wft'd.

Shadowjan
03-07-2006, 08:16 AM
Subtility tree seems to get really interesting for pvp purposes...
never liked the combat tree but that improved sprint...wtf great for flagrunning :razz:

AnteroVipune
03-07-2006, 08:16 AM
Heightened senses seem Stealth talent. Meaning you maybe wont get pulled out of stealth if a cow sneezes in mulgore.

New Improved KS might turn out to be very good.

Deadliness depends entirely on %.

Bit strange that they didnt actually touch Lethality, coz atm its one of the "Must have" talents we have and dictates the way we specc alot. Kinda like warrior Tactical Mastery.


All in all Im quite pleased about those changes.

Khalam
03-07-2006, 08:23 AM
All in all Im quite pleased about those changes.

Same. Well, could use with some other changes, but I got surprised nicely - weapon skill talent and +AP talent.

Of course, everything depends on evis/rupture/garrote changes.

AnteroVipune
03-07-2006, 08:30 AM
Like I said previously. Im bit suprised that they didnt touch Lethality. I was expecting them to reduce the talent points from 5/5 to say 3/3.

Why?
Because that's what happened with mage preview with several talents and Lethality really is THE talent for rogues :P

Cassina
03-07-2006, 08:34 AM
The +weapon skill is very nice and will increase white DPS a lot against bosses, even more so for human rogues.

Khalam
03-07-2006, 08:36 AM
The +weapon skill is very nice and will increase white DPS a lot against bosses, even more so for human rogues.

No, won't increase more for human rogues. +Skill is a linear white dps increase, obviously until you've hit the +10 "cap".

Cassina
03-07-2006, 08:39 AM
+5 racial (swords obviously)
+5 in talents?

Or if it's +10 in talents then that's great for dagger rogues eh?

Mulgor
03-07-2006, 08:40 AM
Heightened senses seem Stealth talent. Meaning you maybe wont get pulled out of stealth if a cow sneezes in mulgore.



wtfx

AnteroVipune
03-07-2006, 08:42 AM
What I meant is: You have higher chance of resisting AOE or such while in stealth and resisting wont result in the loss of stealth.

AnteroVipune
03-07-2006, 08:43 AM
+5 racial (swords obviously)
+5 in talents?

Or if it's +10 in talents then that's great for dagger rogues eh?

+10 from talents would be disgustingly imba :P

Khalam
03-07-2006, 08:43 AM
+5 racial (swords obviously)
+5 in talents?

Or if it's +10 in talents then that's great for dagger rogues eh?

Oh well, if that's what you ment, yes.

Khalam
03-07-2006, 08:44 AM
What I meant is: You have higher chance of resisting AOE or such while in stealth and resisting wont result in the loss of stealth.

Erm, I think it's more of a survivability talent, not about stealth ;P

AnteroVipune
03-07-2006, 08:45 AM
BTW hope everyone notices that he didnt say anything about fixing Vanish :P

Khalam
03-07-2006, 08:47 AM
BTW hope everyone notices that he didnt say anything about fixing Vanish :P

lol, that might mean they're going to fix it.

Anyways, giev 1.12 so I can spec subtlety.

takfiri
03-07-2006, 08:47 AM
Hrm.

Vanish dropping mark. So pretty much giving us one thing we've asked for for a year, and bolster it with vague comments over other talents.

From PvE dagger viewpoint... Weapon Expertise, have to see what it's position in talent tree is. In first 4 ranks it'd be useful. And WTF on deadliness being in sub tree, though it might be construed that it's supposed to help with PvP rogues' generally lower AP?

takfiri
03-07-2006, 08:49 AM
+5 racial (swords obviously)
+5 in talents?

Or if it's +10 in talents then that's great for dagger rogues eh?

+10 from talents would be disgustingly imba :P
g.i.e.f.

Khalam
03-07-2006, 08:51 AM
And WTF on deadliness being in sub tree, though it might be construed that it's supposed to help with PvP rogues' generally lower AP?

it's the perfect place in the pvp tree, might also make a hemo/prep build viable (at least more than it is now) for raiding

Xe
03-07-2006, 10:33 AM
As a PvP rogue this is a nice review imho :)

I like the new sprint and the new vanish, gogo pwn hunters now !!

Abberare
03-07-2006, 11:23 AM
Deadliness - Hell yes. (As long as it's a decent percentage)

Edit: Blue post (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=1271292&p=1&tmp=1#post1271292) for doubters.

Shead
03-07-2006, 04:46 PM
sweet stuffs!

Khalam
03-07-2006, 04:53 PM
Deadliness - Hell yes. (As long as it's a decent percentage)

Edit: Blue post (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=1271292&p=1&tmp=1#post1271292) for doubters.

21/0/30 ftw?

or 24/0/27 :O

Caliban
03-07-2006, 09:40 PM
Looked at it, liked it. While its not a wtfpwn change to the rogue class, it does exactly what blizz said it would - adjust the talents, making the rogue class a bit better in both pvp and pve, and give us some new ways to spec.

As for what I would go for: hard to say before a full talent calculator is released, but going full subtility seems fun

-Cali

Kathra
03-07-2006, 09:49 PM
mm, hemo sealfate?


edit: http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue-en&t=212340&p=1&tmp=1#post212340

;p

Marzul
05-07-2006, 08:06 AM
This is no rogue buff, it's a hunter nerf

Allannen
05-07-2006, 08:16 AM
21/0/30 ftw?

or 24/0/27 :O

And loose imp backstab? No thanks.
Unless they decide to either move imp bs or incorporate it into the bs ability (yeah, right. Like that'll ever happen)

Khalam
05-07-2006, 08:28 AM
21/0/30 ftw?

or 24/0/27 :O

And loose imp backstab? No thanks.
Unless they decide to either move imp bs or incorporate it into the bs ability (yeah, right. Like that'll ever happen)

those wouldn't be daggers builds. ;P

I hope they move some of the daggers talents up in trees, having to spec 16/8/10 at least to have a viable dagger build sucks.

Celinde
05-07-2006, 01:13 PM
Shite... vanish remove Hunter's Mark now? Yay cheer... fuckbollocks ftl. Looks like all the Rogues permawhinging paid off eh?

Instead of flaring your trap you'll have to save it :(

Vereh unfair indeed

And well, if you're in a battleground and get the first hit it doesn't really matters