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View Full Version : advice swords or daggers pve based on available gear


raltag
18-04-2006, 04:36 PM
Hi all
just looking for a little advice im currently 21 -8-22 dagger spec with cold blood/prep and ive used this build for like forever for pve and pvp successfully. but i find myself with a dilemma now, i mostly do pve now (95% of time) and ive heard a lot of good things about sword/combat spec being the best for pve.
my gear available.

Daggers :gutgore ripper/distracting dagger/pvp av reward blue revered dagger/darrowshire spike

swords: krol blade\dal rend offhand\ mirahs song

so what u all think stick with the build and gutgore/ distract or is the krol/mirahs better?

Harshak
18-04-2006, 04:42 PM
For pure raid awesomeness nothing beats a 16/25/10 combat dagger build, but for that build 2x 50dps daggers are preferable. But since you have GGR mainhand you should be able to dish out some nice dmg with it. That build isnt that hot for the occasional pvp though.

A 20/31, or 21/30 if you prefer, sword combat build is a generally strong build which can do close to the same dps but is a bit stronger in most 1v1 encounters, be it pvp or solo farming.

Fleshmissile
18-04-2006, 05:06 PM
i myself have 15/36 - its nuts..

Tengil
22-04-2006, 09:46 PM
17/34/0 or 18/34/0 is really nice if you use swords. It's nice to farm with too outside instances.

Celinde
23-04-2006, 02:02 AM
31/8/12 > the other builds.

Slicer
23-04-2006, 08:56 AM
I agree completely... I haven't respecced in over 6 months since switching to that build. Of course that means going daggers.

Nivellen
23-04-2006, 10:26 AM
31/8/12 > the other builds.
I have this one on my rogue, and I really like it, think it serves a pretty good compromise between PvE and PvP. It's one of the better PvP builds, allows for mad burst damage. (Especially if you can get the NS +10 energy bonus)

Also had the 20/31 combat build on my rogue some time ago, it's I suppose the best PvE build. You don't need to worry about positioning as much as a backstab rogue, just spam SS and see those 800+ crits coming along, and then Blade Flurry + Adrenaline Rush which is just amazing.

Tsarina
23-04-2006, 02:17 PM
17/34/0 or 18/34/0 is really nice if you use swords. It's nice to farm with too outside instances.¨
This is at level 61?

syranndyr
23-04-2006, 02:40 PM
For sheer raid DPS I prefer a 20/31 spec using either fist / sword spec. Combat dagger builds like harshak suggested are nice, but my view of the downside is that sometimes for various encounters, such as ones where you have to deal with lots of adds etc, you end up wasting alot of energy on one target, whereas with the old SS spamage you dont have such long wait times.

The other thing is Harshak mentioned weapon DPS, a combat dagger build focus' on using moves such as slice'n'dice and not the casual eviscerate most people tend to stick with, Slice'n'dice rank 2 is a 30% attack speed increase so the actual prospective gains that can be made are only really effective with good weapons atleast sort of 45dps+ on both weapons is more ideal.

I'd say 20/31 is the best raid talent spec, since it offers more utility inside and outside raids, I found farming with it pretty easy and my damage was still good in raids. Though obviously any non-ambush - backstab reliant build makes pvp more challenging.

takfiri
23-04-2006, 07:05 PM
The other thing is Harshak mentioned weapon DPS, a combat dagger build focus' on using moves such as slice'n'dice and not the casual eviscerate most people tend to stick with, Slice'n'dice rank 2 is a 30% attack speed increase so the actual prospective gains that can be made are only really effective with good weapons atleast sort of 45dps+ on both weapons is more ideal.
True, 50+dps daggers are a requirement for dagger combat. Strange, though, I always thought SnD would be a great use in sword combat builds as well. Guess it depends on white weapon dps as well.

And, what's eviscerate? ;)

syranndyr
24-04-2006, 01:28 AM
It is Takfiri but in a sword build like 20/31 you can keep imp.evis but you'd drop it for a dagger combat build meaning your evis would do less damage. The other thing is using 60 energy and not getting the SF bonus from crits would mean your time to accumulate 5cp's to go into another full Slice'n'dice generally wont allow you to get off an evis, while a sword build often would allow for an evis or rupture inbetween 5cp slice'n'dices.

Artia
24-04-2006, 04:10 AM
Once you go hemo, you never go back :)

takfiri
24-04-2006, 07:30 AM
It is Takfiri but in a sword build like 20/31 you can keep imp.evis but you'd drop it for a dagger combat build meaning your evis would do less damage. The other thing is using 60 energy and not getting the SF bonus from crits would mean your time to accumulate 5cp's to go into another full Slice'n'dice generally wont allow you to get off an evis, while a sword build often would allow for an evis or rupture inbetween 5cp slice'n'dices.
Hmm, sword build has what... about 20% faster CP generation than SF-less dagger build? Can see how it'd allow for extra evisces every now and then, as the SnD running is usually 3-4 CP one.

16/25/10 had me completely rethink my approach to dps. Now I average 50% white, while evis usually does less total damage over a raid than my trusty bow.

I think dagger combat builds rarely have SF, btw;)

edit: what I meant, was... evis is prety much useless in combat dagger, thus is doesn't even enter the equation. There never is a casual evis, except on vael;)

Khalam
24-04-2006, 07:46 AM
Giev Ancient Qiraji Ripper so I can try out Hemo !

takfiri
24-04-2006, 08:02 AM
Giev Ancient Qiraji Ripper so I can try out Hemo !
Sweet sword... might even get me to buy sword skill, who knows;)

Chonar
24-04-2006, 08:13 AM
17/34/0 or 18/34/0 is really nice if you use swords. It's nice to farm with too outside instances.¨
This is at level 61?

Yes.

Caliban
24-04-2006, 09:16 AM
Giev Ancient Qiraji Ripper so I can try out Hemo !
Sweet sword... might even get me to buy sword skill, who knows;)

Now that's what I call a real rogue. Sword rogues are nothing but wannabe warriors, in my opinion :wink:

syranndyr
25-04-2006, 01:21 AM
Takfiri I did'nt say dagger combat rogues used SF I was comparing it to having SF with daggers. I was also taking about sword / fist spec rogues using a 31/20 build so looking back at my earlier post again you'll see I also said that dagger rogues tend to not have the time to evis, thus dropping the talent. Think you misread what I had written. Read it again and say I agree!

Wersia
25-04-2006, 05:42 AM
I have used 31/7/13 (specced wrong on Backstab/Ambush :S) from when I dinged 60, about 8-9 months now, and it works perfect for PvE/PvP.

raltag
25-04-2006, 04:21 PM
thanks all for the great replys, and suggestions.

i like the idea of hemo, not going for SF at the moment as its bugged to high heaven :-((

As for finishers what should i be using?? (for those not paying attention my current spec is 21,8,22) i usually fight like ambush, backstab, backstab, backstab, eviscerate (with cold blood if available)
i've never had much of a problem with eviscerate even in MC i've hit for upto 2150(was in mc raid buffed) so far and averaging a good 1200+

slice and dice never sounded all taht tempting to me 5-6 secs of extra speed does it realy = that much damage?? enough to beat what i put out in eviscerate?

also remember eviscerate is intstant damage, whereas S&D is dependant on me hitting during that time (i still pvp occasionaly mages blink/ mobs change targets etc.)

anyway better get to grinding cash to pay for all the impending respecs lol

syranndyr
25-04-2006, 09:15 PM
For using gutgore with those offhands its probably better to stick with evis as the main finisher assuming you wont pull aggro using slice'n'dice / rupture as a more threat stable form of dps when possible. The slice'n'dice orientations work best with talents like precision and DW spec, alongside two weapons with a high enough dps to make it highly viable ofcourse. A good example of suitable pre-rag equip would be a gutgore / brutality blade combo.

slice and dice never sounded all taht tempting to me 5-6 secs of extra speed does it realy = that much damage?? enough to beat what i put out in eviscerate?


Slice and dice is a 30% attack speed increase, which with good enough equip becomes quite huge. I cba to write out the maths for it but its very good, even on lower quality items its a very significant increase in DPS. Though obviously if your mob is about to die and you're not going to make use of any longer term dps increaser you'd use evis to stack some fast instant damage.

takfiri
25-04-2006, 10:13 PM
As for finishers what should i be using?? (for those not paying attention my current spec is 21,8,22) i usually fight like ambush, backstab, backstab, backstab, eviscerate (with cold blood if available)
That's exactly how 21/8/22 is supposed to work;) SF build's difference is that you do those eviscerates more often.

slice and dice never sounded all taht tempting to me 5-6 secs of extra speed does it realy = that much damage?? enough to beat what i put out in eviscerate?

also remember eviscerate is intstant damage, whereas S&D is dependant on me hitting during that time (i still pvp occasionaly mages blink/ mobs change targets etc.)
SnD increases your white damage. It's not something to use in PvP, as those CP can _always_ be better used elsewhere.

But when raiding, preferrably with 50ish dps weapons and DW talent, it becomes quite useful. As long as you keep it running and have a huge boss/constant stream of mobs to hit on, you'll be... imba. Keep in mind that SnD is a selfbuff, therefore the only real way to 'use' the gathered CP on another target.

Also, steady damage gives for far easier aggro management than that of the burst-based builds. And believe me.. when raiding, you need to do a LOT of that;)