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Karlsens
31-01-2006, 08:57 AM
Some guys said he could get +400 defense and currently he got 383+...

Thats not possible is it?

Limbo
31-01-2006, 09:02 AM
Wouldn't think so...probably his whole defense i.e. 300 + 83

Karlsens
31-01-2006, 09:18 AM
What do you mean?

Do you get + defence skill from other things then items? Or do you get + for each level you get.

Lothereon
31-01-2006, 09:29 AM
There are items in the game with +defence on. Your base defence skilled up fully at Lv60 is 300, now you can improve this up to well over 400 this decreases the enemies chance to crit you, hit you and generally makes you a better tank. The number your looking for is 425 once you reach that point your more or less uncrittable in MC any higher is just wasted. My Druid runs at about 350 defence when in full tanking gear which will soon be upgraded with Core Armour Patch's for kicks.

Decebalus
31-01-2006, 12:02 PM
care to post the gear in which you reach 425 defense?... :razz:

also keep in mind that even if you won't get critted you will still get Crushing Blows... which deal less damage than a crit but still 2-3 Crushing Blows at Chromaggus / Emeriss and even Golemagg could mean trouble... so, you'd be better stacking some +stamina also...

P.S. it's spelled "defense"... :)

Limbo
31-01-2006, 12:06 PM
Sorry

P.S. it's spelled "defense"... :)

It's not if your english...tis if you're american!

Alakhai
31-01-2006, 12:07 PM
I do believe our MT Caladan has around 425 defense if not higher, i can't remember his exact gear but includes full Wrath, Elementium Reinforced Bulwark, Spineshatter etc'

I have 403 defense (without Core leather kits though, so i could boost it to 409 with my current gear) and i have atleast two slots left excluding the obvious upgrades from might to wrath left. (Medallion of Steadfast Might OR Master Dragonslayer's Medallion and Styleens impending Scarab.)

Decebalus
31-01-2006, 12:10 PM
It's not if your english...tis if you're american!

hmmm.... well, ok... but somehow i remember that on my items it says "defense"...

@Alakhai... well, i don't doubt that 425 is reachable... but how many warriors have full Wrath + Reinforced Bulwark + Spineshatter + Styleen's? ;)

Viddeh
31-01-2006, 12:13 PM
Yeah, the game spells everything the american way. Armor, defense..etc

Alakhai
31-01-2006, 12:17 PM
@Alakhai... well, i don't doubt that 425 is reachable... but how many warriors have full Wrath + Reinforced Bulwark + Spineshatter + Styleen's? ;)

A valid point indeed >.

Thirteen
31-01-2006, 12:38 PM
actually i used to have all the bets pre MC tank gear (for +def) and i have 403 defence skill, then items like might shoulders etc, have less +def that stockade nerfed my defence, so it IS possible

EDIT: this was after the 33% nerf

LightSide
31-01-2006, 01:49 PM
+ if you're prot specced theres the extra 10 def from Anticipation.

Kabhanda
31-01-2006, 03:08 PM
I have 414 def on my alt, and have many items that can be upgraded.

Magefist
31-01-2006, 08:16 PM
I'm not a warrior, but I know over 400 is definitely possible. Go inspect a guy called Geddoe sometime - one or two purples, mostly blues, few greens, over 400 defense. (he's also a better tank than so many epixx-equipped warriors, but that's beside the point :roll:)

Just need smart itemisation for teh tankzoring.

http://www.thottbot.com/?i=4969 is the benchmark for +def gear - I think every proper tank outside of BWL wears this. Then, if you really want to look it up, hmm, Crystal Encrusted Greaves... Stockade Pauldrons... Argent Custodian/Fiery Retributer/Bloodlord's Defender, Enchanted Thorium Helm, Ring of Defense, Hardened Stone Band, Redoubt Cloak, Medallion of Grand Marshal Morris, Force of Will, Legplates of the Eternal Guardian, Stonegrip Gauntlets... That probably does it. And not a single MC epic used.

Velkraith
01-02-2006, 01:10 AM
id just like to say with all the best tank gear out atm you can get

445 defence

but once AQ is open this will increase to 450 - 460 due to rep increase improving the bronze dragonflight ring and of course new armor.


it is easy to get 400 ish defence from blue items.

infact it normally goes

just level 60 - 300/310 defence depending on talents
got lvl 60 blue def gear - 380 - 410 defence depending on talents and what defence gear you have gone for
ZG/MC/Ony gear - 380 - 420 defence depending on talents. can be large drop in defence but huge increase in armor, stamina and dodge/parry
BWL gear - 420 - 450 defence depending on talents, items you use etc

overall you will have several armor sets, high armor+stam+dodge/parry, high defence+stam+armor, high resistance gear.

defence fluctuates alot, and imo u dont really need 425 defence till far thru BWL.

Magefist
01-02-2006, 01:59 AM
Huzzah! A warrior said it more clearly than me!

Now... I've just noticed I'm a mage in a warrior forum. Excuse me whilst I run the hell away.

/blink
/frostnova
/polymorph

Naikon
03-02-2006, 02:39 AM
Well, Core of Insight's main tank currently has 452 defense. and that IS with the best gear out at the moment, all of it. (excluding AQ)

Ansharok
27-02-2006, 11:12 AM
Concerning the technical stuff around defence. I got some "crappy" old green boots, but I'm not sure how crappy they really are...

http://www.thottbot.com/?i=24406
of course being lucky me they only have +13 def, but still. +13 def is really high for one single item isnt it?

I got some nice blue boots the other day... http://www.thottbot.com/?i=35872

now, what is the better tanking boot? the def vs the armor\strength\dodge bonus. I assume that the +17 str doesnt really help all that much for tanking, better if it would be stamina...

anyway. with the +13 def I have 362 def total. without... doh. 349. are the greens really better? can anything really compare with that +13 def bonus?

where can I find a place for doing armour vs defence calculations and such? (except asking you guys :D )

Jarelan
27-02-2006, 01:27 PM
Strength helps blocking with a shield, higher strength = more damage blocked.

Afaik.

Cassina
27-02-2006, 01:31 PM
Well armour has diminishing returns above ~6000 AC IIRC, I'd say that stamina, defence and strength (for amount you can shield block) are most important in that order but in this case the boots have 1% dodge which would be like adding a few points of defence anyway.

Kabhanda
27-02-2006, 01:50 PM
armour does NOT have diminishing returns, also 15 str = +1 block value, so its tripe.

Defence, armour, stamina, +block% +block value, +dodge, +parry are all of great use in taking less damage. Strengths use as a tank is that it gives AP, more ap = more damage caused = more aggro from auto attack.

Chonar
27-02-2006, 02:04 PM
armour does NOT have diminishing returns, also 15 str = +1 block value, so its tripe.

Defence, armour, stamina, +block% +block value, +dodge, +parry are all of great use in taking less damage. Strengths use as a tank is that it gives AP, more ap = more damage caused = more aggro from auto attack.

Adtionally, strength = shield block value.

Ashborn
27-02-2006, 02:06 PM
He said that. Lrn2readwhatyouquote.

Chonar
27-02-2006, 05:05 PM
He said that. Lrn2readwhatyouquote.

Uh-huh.

"Strength's use for a tank."

I know he said the block value bit, but yknow... that's -also- strength's use for a tank.

Ansharok
28-02-2006, 05:56 PM
well...!? are the defence boots better or arent they?

is there a tech guide somewhere? where this is all explained?
I'd love to know this so I can work out the maths on my own. of course it is easier just to ask you guys :p

Alverion
28-02-2006, 07:31 PM
Each point of defense is worth 0.04% of dodge, parry and block, it also decreases the chance of your enemy to critically strike you by 0.04%

So at +100def your chance of being crit is 4% less and your chance to dodge/parry/block is 4% more.

Typically your best linear stat increases are somewhere in the line of def > stam > armour > strength, however these 4 stats are usually coupled together with higher end gear, pre-40man gear you'd probably concentrate more on Stam and Def because your need for armour and strength is less due to the fact that your ability to generate damage (and therefore additional threat/rage) and the incoming damage is appropriate scale and pure endurance is usually a better quality then having the combonation to make complete reductions on all sides and generate enough rage to compete with the scaling damage dealt by everyone else.

All in all, I'd say that both boots were similar really, some warriors prefer pure dodge for complete mitigation *shrugs*. Personally I'd stick with the dodge boots initially until you could get some boots with Def on them that also provided another stat increase such as stam.

elog
01-03-2006, 03:05 PM
A few comments (most of it said):

- Armour does not have diminishing returns (armour values are extremely undervalued by most tanks - it is really a primary stat)
- Defense is valuable up to ~425 in terms of crit avoidance, beyond that it is worth something in terms of dodge/block/parry ofc, but given how items are rewarded with "item points" you pay less for extra +%dodge/+%parry/+%block then (so get those items instead)
- Alverions comment is especially important since it means that +def triggers revenge that in fights with limited rage translates to higher threat per time unit

/ Elog

Saxo
02-03-2006, 11:56 PM
revenge is gold in low-end instances with limited rage at your disposal. Using Bloodrage > shield block > revenge to initiate every fight will have the mob glued on ya from the very first hit as long as you apply the usual sunder/revenge when rage allows for the rest of the fight.

Sayid
21-03-2006, 03:57 PM
i want more def