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Alia
15-11-2005, 07:04 AM
Found this on the US mage fourms( here (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-mage&T=506139&P=1) ).

You can check out my profile here: http://www.thottbot.com/?p=Lasati

So... you want to beat a hunter. It's not easy, is it?

I'm your typical epic'd hunter. I weigh in at 4980HP unbuffed and 1268 attack power. This post deals with my build, which is 31 survival and 20 marks.


Opener

For this post I'll refer to my build -- 31 survival. I open with Wyvern Sting. Due to the success of this tactic, many hunters are dropping scattershot for this talent. What this means is that if you are in between 8-41 yards, you are getting slept for 12 seconds followed by an Aimed Shot, a Multishot and a powerful dot.

This is the most powerful opener you'll face.

Not fun!


Counters:

Iceblock -- will remove both effects -- the sleep component and the DoT.

PoM Polymorph -- if you hit this at the same time as a hunter fires Wyvern Sting, the hunter will be under a poly effect and you will have a 12 second sleep. Generally speaking you'll pop first.

Blink -- this is the trickiest counter, to be used by pros only. If you blink at a 45 degree angle to a hunter, you'll be outside the fire arc and the hunter's shot will break requiring him to turn and reshoot.


Primary Damage

A hunter's bread and butter against mages is aimed shot and multishot. As you probably know, it can be quite painful. Because the aimed shot "cast" timer does not affect autoshot, hunter's also get a free autoshot in there.


Aimed shot -- things to know

Aimed shot has a 3 second "cast." It can be defeated by moving inside 8 yards or outside 41 yards, or by moving outside the front fire arc. This will cause the shot to cancel.

Aimed shot is not a channel, but stuns will break the "cast."

The 3 second aimed shot cast duration can be extended by damage much in the same way as a channelled spell would.

Aimed shot is on a 6 second cooldown that it shares with arcane shot. This means if you force a hunter opponent to arcane shot (which hunters often do if they think their opponent will move in or out of range), he cannot aimed shot for 6 seconds.

Multi-shot -- things to know

Multishot is a flat 120 damage add.

The power in multishot lies in the 30% damage buff that's near the end of the marksmanship tree (which I don't have) and the 30% damage buff for the full Giantstalker set (which I don't wear).
Multishot/Marksmanship hunters are dangerous, BUT multishot has a 10 second cooldown and hunters that specc for it will have less attack power and agility, as well as less crit.

If you play correctly, you should only have to eat a multishot once.

And you don't like eating multishots, do you?


Secondary/Melee Damage

Hunter secondary damage is not to be discounted. I'll include both the pet and the melee component here. Unless the hunter is specced in Beasts, the pet is only good for spell interruption. If the hunter is specced in Beasts you have 15 seconds of kiting or being an an iceblock every 2 minutes*.

As for melee, my personal best raptor strike crit against cloth is 1.3k and I'm specced to crit over 50% of the time with it. Plus I have an appropriate weapon to do so. The moral is, don't get in melee range either.


What you do

This is the million dollar question, isn't?

Once you get past the opener, which I have discussed above you need to situate yourself 5-7 yards away from the hunter. This is so the hunter cannot hit you in melee, and cannot hit you with ranged. In fact, this is the only good method of consistantly beating a hunter.

The tools you need to use are:


Frost Nova

Frost Armor

Frost Bolt

Blink

Poly

And general kiting skills that involve keeping out of a hunters frontal firing arc.

Mana shield is also useful against hunters, since generally a successful hunter will kill you with a mostly filled mana bar.

If you have +damage gear, you might want to swap it out for +stam.


The damage spells you need to use are:


Cone of cold

Blast wave

Arcane explosion


And remember kids, killing hunters is not for amateurs and takes practice. But it's a fun and rewarding sport once you get the hang of it!



*Pets with Bestial Wrath activated are immune to mage normal snares but they aren't immune to Flash Bomb (http://thottbot.com/?s=flash+bomb).

They require no engineering to use.


More importantly you can generally outpace a pet with Beastial Wrath for 15 seconds using blink and/or the nifty stopwatch.

Harr
15-11-2005, 09:55 AM
Thank you, exactly kind of information we all need against hunters :)

(firing arc was totally new info for me (never tried hunter))

Gruze
15-11-2005, 10:47 AM
Mana shield against a hunter ? lolz

Rey
15-11-2005, 01:23 PM
frost nova...resisted
sheep...resisted
re-sheep...resisted
you die

next?

dantheman
15-11-2005, 01:27 PM
cynical as ever :)

Locowar
15-11-2005, 03:07 PM
Shadowmelded Aimed shot... how will you counter that? :P

Alia
15-11-2005, 04:34 PM
Shadowmelded Aimed shot... how will you counter that? :P

by not playing horde mage char :twisted: .

TheFallen
15-11-2005, 05:18 PM
Bit optimistic is it.

He posted most of the hunters decent skills we use, although i didn't see feign death or traps there, could have overlooked though.

But how to counter, it's possible but heh, Not as easy as it looks when he posts it. Epic hunter like him, gl killing it :roll:

Tsarina
15-11-2005, 06:00 PM
Shadowmelded Aimed shot... how will you counter that? :P
You can't. If I get a free shadowmelded opener, you are dead. No question. Even the best mages we have on this server, who often beat me in duels, are finished if I get to start from SMed position and AS.

Hellstorm
15-11-2005, 07:40 PM
pff i can kill most hunter.
But duels against full epic hunters anoy me (although in BG it looks like the pets are actually harder thent he hunters them selves.)

Ashborn
15-11-2005, 07:44 PM
lrn 2 spl hellstorm.

Gruze
15-11-2005, 08:25 PM
pff i can kill most hunter.
But duels against full epic hunters anoy me (although in BG it looks like the pets are actually harder thent he hunters them selves.)

lolz :P

Tsarina
15-11-2005, 08:28 PM
pff i can kill most hunter.
But duels against full epic hunters anoy me (although in BG it looks like the pets are actually harder thent he hunters them selves.)
Being a clothie in AB makes me think BM hunters are silly. An enraged pet solo me easy, and that doesn't feel right somehow.

Gruze
15-11-2005, 08:48 PM
pff i can kill most hunter.
But duels against full epic hunters anoy me (although in BG it looks like the pets are actually harder thent he hunters them selves.)
Being a clothie in AB makes me think BM hunters are silly. An enraged pet solo me easy, and that doesn't feel right somehow.

BM is imba imo..

Harr
16-11-2005, 12:16 AM
A hunter has shot me for 1.2k damage against my 5.2k armor in AB (aimed shot I think, can't remember anymore).

Ashborn
16-11-2005, 12:33 AM
Meh. Hunters die.

Gruze
16-11-2005, 02:04 AM
Meh. Hunters die.

So do locks and every other class now and then : P

Angellic
16-11-2005, 02:14 AM
wyvern sting is silly, it is no more powerfull than a trap, and with wyvern you cant retrap....so... no, it's not a good opener.
And aimed is infact a real channeled spell, it _can_ be interrupted, you just need to get some hits in to make it a 5-6 sec cast, and thereby useless, i will often cancel the aimed, and go with multishot followed by a scatter instead, if that happens.
Apart from that, if your facing a non bm hunter, dont bother dealing with the pet, unless you have a pom sheep at hand (the insta cast thingie, cant remember the name), just frost nova, and try to get to a non line of sight place, force the hunter to move (not possible in ab - i know). a hunter need to stand still to fire the 2 most powerfull skills - aimed and multishot.
Will probably write a little more later on, too tired now 8)

Rey
16-11-2005, 09:25 AM
The hunters that start with wyvern sting agains me just wasted their opener. Wotf ftw.

Ashborn
16-11-2005, 09:34 AM
The hunters that start with wyvern sting agains me just wasted their opener. Wotf ftw.
Wait, what? *goes off to re-read wotf's description* Wtf. It works on sleep too. And I thought just fear + charm was imba.

Angellic
16-11-2005, 09:42 AM
Oh, btw. /wave harr - i've been hitting your shammy friends for more tho :P 1.7k on a shammy with shield, no idea what gear tho

Teuregon
16-11-2005, 11:00 AM
Bah hunters. Im a big fan of heavily abusing their min.range. Stand a few feet from one, nova, frostbolt and various burstdmg.

Alia
16-11-2005, 11:26 AM
Bah hunters. Im a big fan of heavily abusing their min.range. Stand a few feet from one, nova, frostbolt and various burstdmg.

isn't that what we do all? :roll:

jkb
30-11-2005, 12:56 AM
I find staying close-ish to hunters the most effective method for killing hunters in open pvp and duels. Fireblast when possible + IAE and throw in PoM Fireball/frostbolt/pyro when possible + use mana shield once (twice = no mana to fight).
Seems quite effective on even the better allaince hunters (As Tsarina knows :P )

Karadros
30-11-2005, 01:58 AM
If it's Zergrar:

Walk up to him and hit. Move forwards, still hitting, as he walks slowly backwards. Repeat until killed 5x.

The repeat some more for the hell of it.

Fràr
12-12-2005, 05:35 AM
There has been only 1 mage that can kill me everytime, and all he does is blink into my deadzone, freeze me and aoe me to death....that simple :?

chaoshammer
12-12-2005, 07:34 AM
Yeah but you're not 60. Wait till you get beastalker set and start getting more 60 gear then you'll be able to beat him

Fràr
12-12-2005, 01:33 PM
i cannot see how that will help...yes i will get better gear, but shouldnt mages also get better that will help them hit harder?

Harr
12-12-2005, 02:03 PM
Not even close to the same extent as physical damage dealers get with weapon upgrades.

Ashborn
12-12-2005, 07:37 PM
Not even close to the same extent as physical damage dealers get with weapon upgrades.
Wrong. +dmg gear is *insane*.

chaoshammer
12-12-2005, 07:40 PM
Yeah but +dmg sacrifices stats which = less int and less stamina which also makes you faster to kill but also makes you a faster killer

Ashborn
12-12-2005, 07:41 PM
Get proper +dam gear. You can get the stats *and* the damage if you play your cards right. And it's not like you need a million int anyways.

chaoshammer
12-12-2005, 07:42 PM
Also not every one is able to get the insane +dmg gear with good stats like you guys

Ashborn
12-12-2005, 07:44 PM
There's plenty of very nice blue stuff around. What do you think I wore before I started raiding?

Kathra
12-12-2005, 07:48 PM
There's plenty of very nice blue stuff around. What do you think I wore before I started raiding?

Lies, you were in epics when your charecter was created

Alia
13-12-2005, 09:58 AM
pre-epic +dmg items - farmable (http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage-en&t=50634&p=1&tmp=1#post50634) by Arukan.